Hair Helmet

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Well, hello, everyone, and welcome back to Crosswires. We've had a few technical difficulties getting started tonight because we, in our infinite wisdom, decided that what we would do is try and stream this whole thing to all these different platforms. Now, our new recording host, Riverside, are fantastic. We've got the ability to do it, but it does seem like we've got a few little problems. So we are still learning. [00:00:34] Speaker B: I guess it means we're missing some Apple intelligence. [00:00:38] Speaker A: Oh, that's terrible. All right, just gonna say this. We're gonna jump aboard her plane one, which I know it was never actually meant, called her plane one in the keynote, but I think her plane one is the most appropriate. [00:00:53] Speaker B: Yes. Or her force one out. Right, right. [00:00:55] Speaker A: Oh, her force one. Her force one is better. Yeah. Of course, the next time we do this, they're gonna have to call it her playing the sequel. [00:01:02] Speaker B: Now, I want to see Liam Neeson on it, because Liam Neeson was on the air, the Air Force one show or movie. And I want to see Liam Neeson be like, I don't know. You don't like those movies? [00:01:14] Speaker A: No, j. No, no, that isn't good. No. Liam Neeson is not going to be in an apple dub dub DC. You're more likely to get, like. I don't know. Like. I mean, you know what? I'm. You're more likely, Jay, to get our friend Gideon Mayhew. Oh, there you go. Guest developers on the plane next year. Like, not just apples, people, but, like, I like that. You know, James Thompson from Peacock gonna put Chuck and, you know, Craig Hockenberry up there. [00:01:43] Speaker B: You know, there's a fun little tidbit I learned from ATP about the opening. Phil Schiller was using the ipod click wheel, and Phil Schiller's why the ipod had the click wheel. [00:01:55] Speaker A: Ah. So, okay, look, before we get into that, because we definitely want to talk about intro, let's introduce panel. Obviously, you've got the incredibly chatty, wonderful tea now, tea with milk drinking, my beautiful fiance, Jay. How you doing, Jay? [00:02:11] Speaker B: I'm doing really good. Doing really good. I'm here with doing one of my favorite now annual traditions. And I mean, apple vint, where helicopter crosswires. [00:02:21] Speaker A: That is true. That is very true. And, of course, because it is an apple event. And Alex. Alex, message me when we were talking, he's like, do you know, I don't post anything about apple anymore, but, yeah, it's like Alex low from the interface, where you will find very little apple content these days, but plenty of other amazing content. Yeah, Alex, how you doing? [00:02:40] Speaker C: I'm good, thank you. I've had a recorded podcast this morning, so it's my second one of the day. [00:02:44] Speaker A: So have you had enough coffee and tea? No, you don't really do. Do you do coffee? [00:02:50] Speaker C: I do coffee, yeah, I do coffee, but not. Not really. I haven't drank tea for a long time. So. Yeah. [00:02:55] Speaker A: Jay's just started to get into. Because Jay's into Yorkshire TDcaf. [00:02:59] Speaker C: Oh, yes. [00:03:01] Speaker B: And I found out that it's. It's. It's. It's the Yorkshire difference. [00:03:05] Speaker A: Anyway, so, look, we. We are here to. Now, it's obviously been a couple of weeks, and this is good. Just. Just so people, this isn't me being lazy and recording or anything like that. I'm not. I admit you might have noticed we haven't had as many episodes out. That's on me. I am trying to get better at that. Jay and I both have full time jobs. We also got business we're trying to run. It's not an excuse. It's just, you know, I think every podcast will attest it's not always easy. Anyway, so we are a few weeks after the event. I think we. I think we have to start with that intro because so many wonderful tidbits there. I mean, let me just start. Do the intros to the WWDC events, do you think. Do they still bring the same enjoyment as the previous year's ones? [00:03:52] Speaker C: They're definitely more fun because I remember. Used to have a little videos that I. The ages ago, they had their animated video with all the mini icons. I don't remember that one. [00:04:02] Speaker A: Like, I do. Yeah. [00:04:03] Speaker C: Like a sketchy noise in the background, but, yeah, they're definitely more produced, aren't they? I do wonder how this one was filmed. [00:04:10] Speaker A: Well, didn't it. Wasn't it all shot on iPhone? What? Did we see the end credits? Was it all shot on iPhone? [00:04:16] Speaker C: It was, yes, I think it was, yeah. [00:04:18] Speaker A: So, I mean, again, that's incredible. Gotta ask a question, though. So it starts off, for those of you haven't seen him, we're gonna put a link to the event in there. In the show notes, it starts off with Craig Federighi on a plane saying, you know, it's big day, getting everyone prepped and ready, and they're obviously all in jumpsuits. And it basically goes through where they end up parachuting out of the plane, down to the event. Now, I've got asked a question. Do you think any. Do you think once they left that plane, that would not have been that bunch of execs, right? I mean, I can't see how they would have let them do that. [00:04:57] Speaker C: One thing was weird. I saw people's hair move. [00:04:59] Speaker A: Like. [00:04:59] Speaker C: Like, it was as you'd expect. The hair would be back as you're falling by that one. That would have to be added afterwards, surely. I just. [00:05:07] Speaker A: Well, we could. No, we could be one of those skydiving simulators. That's what I was thinking. [00:05:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:12] Speaker A: You know, you've got that. What, you even get those on cruise ships now. [00:05:16] Speaker C: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah. I don't think they would have done. No, no. [00:05:20] Speaker A: Because I don't think Craig would want to mess up that helmet. That helmet just. I want that helmet. Yeah, absolutely. Hello. Her force one. Hey, Evan, how you doing? [00:05:33] Speaker B: Yeah, and Evan says, big year for AI generated hair. [00:05:37] Speaker A: Big year. Well, this, unfortunately, I think we. We aren't going to be able to escape AI in this episode. I can assure you there is. Well, I said no. I say there's no AI generated content in this episode. But actually, the audio is going to go through Riverside's magic audio, which will be using machine learning to improve the audio. But it's not. [00:06:01] Speaker B: I wonder, will we see Haley Joel Osmonde? [00:06:06] Speaker A: You're definitely thinking of the wrong AI. And if that's where AI is heading, I'm terrified anyway, so. Okay. Brilliant intro. I love Phil Schiller, Beanie Murr. I love, you know, the whole playlist, the classic iPod. And the big thing for me was seeing that original rainbow color branding. I like that Apple. I'm embracing that again. [00:06:30] Speaker B: Is it me? And it could just be me thinking from my queer side. Is it me? Or are they really embracing the rainbow to be like, hey, we are a company run by a lot of queer individuals, and we have, like, an openly gay CEO, and we're just going to be cool. I mean, I have to wonder, is that part of why they're doing it? [00:06:51] Speaker A: Possibly, but also that has been part of Apple's branding for far longer than you know. You got to remember Apple logos on devices used to have rainbows embedded into them. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:07] Speaker A: You know, we're talking probably before Alex was born even. You know, I think. I think you like my power book, the old power book g freeze had. Yeah, no, no, no, before that, but no, not the GPG freeze. Have a light up. But you look at, like, classic marks. [00:07:26] Speaker C: Like, even the original Macintosh had it as well. [00:07:28] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. So it's not a new thing. But I. I don't think it's necessarily coincidence. Jay. Also, I think obviously, pride month, Apple are very big on supporting pride and I think that's fantastic. They have an incredibly inclusive employer. So, intro aside, we then of course come down to our favourite CEO. Again, I think it is really interesting. I don't think again we are ever going back to in front of a live audience dubbed up DC's again. [00:08:00] Speaker C: No, I don't think so. [00:08:01] Speaker A: And I know we've said this every time, but it's just more and more sort of nailed uncertainty now. And I think in a way that, for me, and misses my opinion, I do prefer it because it means that, I mean, you remember all the overflowing games you had at events when tech wouldn't work. Like, was it, was it the iPhone XS of the iPhone ten and Face ID when, because we've been polishing it, the iPhone Face ID didn't work because people had gone through it. And then you had moments where, you know, Steve Jobs got angry because I don't know if people remember it, but the classic Alex, you'll appreciate this. The Wi Fi issue, when they're trying to show, what was it? The iPhone is the iPhone four. [00:08:47] Speaker C: They're demoing the iPhone four versus the iPhone three GS in terms of loading speed. [00:08:53] Speaker A: Yes. And everybody have these little mifi devices now. I mean, I don't see those as much anymore. Alex, I don't know about you, I don't see people using them any as much. [00:09:03] Speaker C: No. I used to have one. [00:09:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:06] Speaker C: People just tether off their phone. Don't they all? They've got iPads before g and there's. And the amount of Wi Fi that's everywhere. Like, I'd remember maybe 2008, 2009 that I would struggle to go out and get Wi Fi. But now you go everywhere and they've got it. [00:09:20] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's really not a problem. And Wi Fi infrastructure has improved so much, you know. If you want to know more about Wi Fi infrastructure, particularly the ubiquity kind, do make sure you have. Come on, we gotta get working. People find ui chat. [00:09:37] Speaker C: You can find Ui chat at the interface dot UK and there's some podcast sections on there, or Ui chat podcast dot co dot Uk, I think. [00:09:44] Speaker A: Nice. So, yeah, awesome. Shall we dive into the actual event now? I think a big thing, obviously, about this event is, you know, AI and intelligence. But Jake, you mentioned at the top of the notes, Apple TV plus there's some new shows coming, actually. I don't know about either of YouTube, but I'm really liking the direction Apple TV plus is heading. [00:10:07] Speaker C: We primarily use that for everything, like, when we watch stuff. [00:10:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:12] Speaker C: We haven't used any of the services quite a while. We just use that. [00:10:14] Speaker A: It's. There's a lot. [00:10:15] Speaker C: A lot of good stuff on there, so. [00:10:18] Speaker B: And I've got a lot of friends who are, like, on Android and they subscribe to Apple TV plus through, like, either I can read tv or Fire TV. A lot of people who are subscribing to it and, like. And, like, a lot of people are coming to. I mean, silo was a great series. I'm excited to see more of silo, I'm sure. Shrink or shrinking. It's. That one's really good. And someone's going through mental health issues right now. That's. It's very much a show that makes me laugh and all that. I love it. [00:10:47] Speaker A: But I think, for me, the big thing that I like about Apple TV plus is it's a reasonable price. But more than that, they've got the family sharing model. Correct. Because it's built into Apple's icloud family sharing. There is no password sharing concerns because what you do is you add people to your Apple family. Yeah. And then they have their own. If you've got, obviously, the family. Because me and Jay have. Is it Apple TV? Prem Apple one premiere, which is everything. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And it's. It is about 37 pounds a month now, Alex. It's. [00:11:25] Speaker C: Yeah, about that. Yeah. [00:11:27] Speaker A: But do you know what? I'm sorry. I actually think. Okay, so you get Apple Music, Apple Music, Apple TV, Apple News, Apple Arcade, Apple fitness, two terabytes of shared iCloud storage, which I've got to say, we, as a family, with me, Jay and my parents, we are getting close to actually filling. So we might have to upgrade and add it. Because you can bolt on more storage. [00:11:54] Speaker C: You can bolt on quite a bit now. Yeah. [00:11:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Was it up to six terabytes you buy now? Kill us. So. Which. Because obviously be on top of you, too. So you could actually be up to eight terabytes of cloud. Yeah. Cloud storage if you wanted it. [00:12:06] Speaker C: Here's a quick question. How does the Apple id situation for countries? I know they're a bit funny about that. How does those. How do those two integrate properly if you change the country on your Apple ID or to just work. [00:12:16] Speaker A: So we had to. Yeah. So Jay had to change her Apple store. [00:12:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:20] Speaker A: And that. But that's only for the purchases. You could have everything else work to do, just not the subscriptions and out of store stuff. And tv. [00:12:32] Speaker B: Mine was in a weird. A weird place where my idol, an old store account and that one I could not get changed over. So I mean, it was not tied to my icloud ID. So I've actually one of those. [00:12:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:45] Speaker B: So now I have a. My icloud is my store and that means I have to redo all my purchases. I mean, it's unfortunate, but hey, it's. [00:12:51] Speaker C: Yeah, sort of ask is quite interesting. [00:12:53] Speaker A: Yeah, no, but it is a good point. Obviously, Jay and I. Jay and mine and Jay's situation is obviously a little bit different. I think Apple's intention is that you are all in the same country. They certainly obviously make it. It is very different to like network, Netflix, password sharing. [00:13:10] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:13:10] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, which is good because it also means you, Jay or Alex, yourself and your partner can have. You've got your own playlist, you've got your own data. There's a much better segmentation. I mean, just something I want to just genuinely ask because I haven't really asked this icloud as a package. So Apple one and iCloud, I actually think for your person who is completely baked into the Apple ecosystem, I think iCloud provides actually pretty dang good email with good spam filtering. [00:13:46] Speaker B: Yep. [00:13:47] Speaker A: Good calendar, good contacts, all of which do support open standards. So you can use your icloud mail on almost anything that supports iMap. Do you know what it does? It does do something with Gmail, doesn't it actually complies with your IMAP standards properly? Gmail does not. And outlook has. Because I have this problem for a client, Outlook does not handle drafts very well on Gmail. [00:14:14] Speaker C: Oh, I see. [00:14:15] Speaker A: Because they're not quite complying with imagine. But I think especially with one of the things that they've announced later in the event, do you think for most people, icloud is actually a really good option? [00:14:28] Speaker C: Yeah, I've been using it for ages and ages. All my stuff is in there apart from video backups, because if I'm storing footage, I don't store it on site or store on Google Drive, mainly because I can't predict what iCloud's going to do with their files. Is it going to download them? Is it going to. I don't. Yeah, because it's many, many terabytes of stuff. I would store an Ital because obviously I'm paying for that as well, but I just can't predict whether or not it's going to running download stuff here. [00:14:59] Speaker A: Do you mean in terms of if it's going to keep it available offline for you. Yeah, well skipping ahead a little bit because it's been announced since that in the latest OS updates you're going to be able to choose to keep a folder available offline. [00:15:13] Speaker C: Oh, what I meant was, I mean can you choose to keep the folder online only like remove it from the PC, the Mac here? [00:15:20] Speaker A: Oh, I see. I don't think you can. [00:15:21] Speaker B: Yeah, because that's one thing Dropbox had was selective sync and I'm still in my stuff soon, places I got to get out of. I'm still figuring out my, my own digital strategy. [00:15:33] Speaker A: Well yeah, and it's interesting because obviously net we use Netsclub for our, for our business storage, so because we, we've got that connected up to a few things. But yeah, we can choose to not sync those files down. So yeah, it is a bit. I don't think icloud is intended for that use case. No, no, it's definitely not actually. It's definitely not. I think they probably envisioned using icloud photos to store those videos. [00:16:02] Speaker C: Yeah, that's true. [00:16:04] Speaker B: And especially the, if your photo videos are spatial videos, they look amazing on vision osite. [00:16:13] Speaker A: Well let's talk then about vision Os. Now this is interesting. Is it? Hang on. Oh yeah. Okay, so there are 1.5 million compatible iPhone and iPad apps run on Vision. [00:16:25] Speaker B: OS, which I think this is an important thing to note because I've been listening to some people about the Vision Vision Pro. A lot of people have said unless you're an enthusiast with a little bit of disposable income, there's not a lot of reason right now to buy. And I do agree. I mean yeah, it's very much an enthusiast or mister developers device and that like sometimes some people are like, okay, I have it. What do I do now with it? Because some of the experiences are not there yet. [00:16:56] Speaker A: That's true. I mean Alex, I take it you've not had a chance to play with one yet because we're not available here. [00:17:01] Speaker C: They're available as of today. [00:17:03] Speaker A: Ah yes. [00:17:04] Speaker C: I've seen some people pre order them today so I'd imagine they'll come into stores pretty soon. But I saw someone put their, I think one of the editors of Macroom has put his screenshot of his order. It's like nearly four grand. [00:17:15] Speaker A: Oh. So Jake, when you said a little bit of disposable income mean you have very different definitions of disposable income, which is somewhat scary. [00:17:25] Speaker B: I mean to be fair, if I wasn't flying over to the UK three times a year. I could afford. I get the. [00:17:32] Speaker A: It's actually true. You actually could, like. Legitimately. Legitimately. If anybody wants to help B and J out, please do head over to crosswise.net tips. We genuinely like, if you want to support what we're doing and help us pay for flights and stuff, we really would appreciate it. No obligation, of course, but. So pre orders today, which today is Friday the 28 June, as we record this. So pre orders in the UK today because it went live in, I think, China, Japan, Singapore, Australia, Canada, France and the UK. Now that's social. Is it just me or is that quite a, like. Okay, I get China, Japan, Singapore, I get Australia, I get Canada. But France and the UK. So why only France? Why not Germany? Why not. [00:18:22] Speaker C: Oh, do you think Germany's privacy laws or. [00:18:25] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think it's also maybe a little bit of a gotcha to the EU on what they were doing with the DMA. Because Apple's not. Not. I actually saw a potential rumor that some of these features may not come. [00:18:41] Speaker A: To the EU for a bit for Apple intelligence. I did see that as well. But JVAP only holds true if they not put in France, because France are in the EU. So that is true, actually quite a big part of EuJ. Anyway, let's talk about what's new with vision Os two. I mean, look, Jay's obviously, Jay's made some quite good notes. What. I mean, start Alex for yourself. What do you think of the highlights of vision Os two? What do you think is the key thing that they're doing this time? [00:19:17] Speaker C: The one I remember the feature was, they said you can have like an ultra wide monitor for using it as a Mac. Like, when I look at the Vision Pro, I see two use cases, I think tv and a Mac display. Because I could edit final cut videos with like a massive real estate. That'd be absolutely amazing. Yeah. Anything else is not that interesting. But to be honest, the full screen wide display will be pretty good. That was my highlight. [00:19:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So different aspect ratios and up to 4k. So you're going to be able to do ultra wide monitors, virtual monitors, which I think, as you said, it's going to be brilliant. I will admit that's one use case. We're also adding a train mode for travel, which makes sense, especially in this country. [00:20:05] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:20:06] Speaker A: Ah, that'll be one of the reasons they added it because of the UK and probably European France launch, because we have like a train infrastructure. That is not so. Fun fact. And I didn't know this. Until recently, the north american rail network is mostly prioritized for cargo. It's for freight because it's for freight companies who own the lines. So if there's a freight train of, on the same line as your passenger train, well, guess what happens? Your passenger train has to wait. Whereas I mean, to be fair, on UK trains, if there's a leaf on the line, I remember that we were. [00:20:42] Speaker B: Heading, our family was heading from Denver back to Ohio and our train was delayed for about like five or 6 hours because of, because of the freight trains on there. [00:20:51] Speaker A: Yeah. So. But it's good to have more travel modes. But yeah, UK trains, it's just usually leafs on the line or, or trespassers on the line. [00:21:00] Speaker C: So I do wonder how the vision pro knows where it is in terms of a train. Or like, I was a bit surprised when I saw that because I thought surely you could just activate the travel mode of whatever scenario you're in. Surely. [00:21:11] Speaker A: I just thought maybe it's a type of motion or maybe. Yeah, because a train motion is going to be very different to a white motion. [00:21:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:19] Speaker B: And I think they're trying to stop people from being able to use it in the car driving. [00:21:23] Speaker A: Yes. [00:21:24] Speaker B: Because that has become a little bit of a thing in the US. [00:21:28] Speaker A: Yes. Okay. So you can create spatial photos from existing 2d photos using machine learning. So this is the first mention of machine learning, I think. And I love this idea. I love the fact that they're extrapolating 3d data from two D. I mean, I like the idea of the spatial photos. I just, again, with Alex, to an extent, I don't think it's necessarily, for me at least it's not something I would find useful beyond those sort of features. But what is interesting is obviously taking spatial photos and video seriously. Seriously, because Canon are now offering a lens, a dedicated spatial lens for cameras. [00:22:11] Speaker C: I think black magic are as well. [00:22:13] Speaker A: Aren't blackmagic doing a camera? Yeah, they're doing an actual camera, I think, aren't we? Yeah. Where it's Canon, I mean, which is awesome because blackmagic cameras are really nice, but Canon are actually doing a lens you can and I'm going to assume it's going to be for a mirrorless range. [00:22:27] Speaker C: Yeah, probably. [00:22:29] Speaker A: But you'll be able to bolt on. So that's good. Oh yeah. Airplay receiver. But you're gonna be able to use it as an. Yeah, as an airplay target. So you would, so you would be able to, for example from your iPad, airplay a YouTube video. [00:22:44] Speaker C: That's pretty cool. [00:22:45] Speaker A: Which obviously means for apps, maybe content apps that haven't yet brought their apps to pro, but it also means you. You could put your iPad screen, actually, onto your vision pro. [00:22:58] Speaker C: Of course. Yeah. [00:22:59] Speaker A: Because you can just, you know, do that. But it does. I mean, I think that's kind of cool. Mouse support. Yay. That's good. Especially, you know, with a desktop mode in place, I guess. [00:23:13] Speaker C: Yep. [00:23:14] Speaker A: So, vision os two. I mean, I think it's fair to say none of us are planning a vision pro purchase at this time. No, unfortunately not. I'm. I'm tempted to. I would like to go to an Apple store to go and actually have a look at one. [00:23:28] Speaker C: Me too. Yeah. [00:23:29] Speaker A: You know, and I think actually. I think probably. I don't know if we're gonna have time, Jay, but maybe we can head to Southampton, which is our nearest Apple store. Yeah. [00:23:37] Speaker C: Do you think they're actually gonna come to every store or just some of the flagship ones? [00:23:41] Speaker A: Oh, that's a good question. I mean. Well, we bear in mind we don't have that many Apple stores in the UK, so it would be more feasible to have one in it. One or two in every store. [00:23:52] Speaker C: Well, some of them don't even have enough room for them. We've still got some micro stores here. Like, micro Apple stores. There's one in. There's one in Birmingham, for example. It's very small. Yeah. [00:24:04] Speaker A: To be fair, the store that I'm referring to is a fairly decent size. Yeah, Southampton's quite big. I mean, you know, I would at least expect the two London stores to have them. [00:24:15] Speaker B: And Southampton is where a lot of tourists come through, too, both, like, traveling in, but also, like, cruising. So it's a store. [00:24:23] Speaker C: That's true. [00:24:24] Speaker B: A lot of money. [00:24:25] Speaker A: And it's a big shopping center, but it's West Quay. It's pretty big, but we're not playing it, so. But obviously, if you are lucky enough to have a. Have an Apple vision Pro, please do. Let us know what you know. Let us know your thoughts on vision os two. All right. We're not here to unpicken every detail of the event. Go and watch the event. There's been plenty of really good coverage by other news source. We're here to give our opinions on things that matter, so. Okay, iOS 18. Now, can I just say the first thing for me? I don't know about YouTube. At last you can completely customize your home screens. Yes. [00:25:05] Speaker B: There are times I have the perfect wallpaper, and I'm like, the photo app behind it is being obstructed by this application. [00:25:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And of course Android has been able to do this since probably almost day one. Yeah. Well maybe I can't remember customizing it. Android users, please correct me if I'm wrong, but be able to arrange your apps and widgets wherever you want. I do like the dark mode for the home screen, the app icons, and you can tint any of your app icon. So you can tint every app icon on your custom. So you can, like Jay would go purple, for example. I might go blue. But there has been some sort of some feedback that it's not necessarily as wealth, not well thought out, but it's not as flexible for developers as you might think. I think there are some restrictions on what the dark mode icons can be, for example, but I don't know. Big, big deal for me. [00:26:07] Speaker B: Well, and it is definitely a big risk. The fact that like you're messing with developer, with developers brand icons like that, which, the fact that you can tend any of those is a big risk for Apple to take. [00:26:19] Speaker A: Yeah, but I mean, again, it's been something that Android users have been able to do for a long time. So I don't think the brands are going to be too, too worried about that. I don't think they're going to start screaming. [00:26:30] Speaker C: They have brand guidelines, but that is only when it's public facing in marketing and stuff and on websites and on different places. But it was on someone's phone. Doesn't really matter that much to be honest. [00:26:38] Speaker A: We've got no control over it. No, exactly. With that though, with a customization comes control center. So again, you're now going to be able to basically groups of controls. You've got controls galleries, so you're going to be able to choose what controls you want. And I think this is where I really like they're having the making controls API for developers to be able to put things into control center to trigger actions within their apps. Now that seems like a really, really good idea to me. [00:27:16] Speaker B: Well, and it makes control center that much more usable and makes it words. Now, it's now something that a lot of users you have to expect, probably don't need to go there because it's a little bit really janky and wonky and it's hard to like, it's not useful enough. But if you can be like, hey, there's like widgets, hey, you can put your, your secure system here or you can put your, your stuff for your tvs or anything that you need to there people, it makes it much more useful? [00:27:50] Speaker A: Well, older versions of iOS let you swipe between pages in control center, but they were defined pages by Apple. So it would be, you know, you swipe between home and your music controls, things like that. This is going to be under your control. I mean, Alex, is this a sort of. Are you, are you a customizer or you just like that? Just leave it stock? [00:28:08] Speaker C: I typically do leave it as it is. To be honest. It would be nice to customize the control center in terms of home kit because those shortcuts are a bit random, aren't they? Yeah, no, that will be, that will be nice. But I typically won't mess around with the design of it personally. [00:28:25] Speaker A: But yeah. Now the next question I need to ask you both is how long before you get iOS 18 are you going to be removing the flashlight from the lock screen, putting out another menu? [00:28:37] Speaker B: Because I use flashlight quite often. [00:28:39] Speaker A: Well, you can be in control center, but. Yeah, true. [00:28:41] Speaker B: Yeah, but yeah. Removing off, see, absolutely. Because there many times I will turn it on by accident. It's just like I've done it well, I mean it's just like my walkie talkie at work has a plastic button that I always end up turning on at the wrong time. [00:28:56] Speaker A: What about you, Alex? Are you again? Is it something you're even. I don't know. There are different grades of iPhone users who want customizability, but. [00:29:06] Speaker C: Yeah. Like when I got the iPhone 15, you can customize the action button that was called action button. I put it on Shazam, but I've never used it since I got it. So. [00:29:20] Speaker A: I've got mine set to be a camera trigger. So I actually would probably remove the camera. [00:29:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:28] Speaker A: From the home screen and I'd rather be something else like that might open. I don't know. I don't know what I'll do yet. [00:29:34] Speaker B: I. [00:29:34] Speaker C: But I might do Homekit and then another app. Not sure. [00:29:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:29:38] Speaker B: And the fun fact about this, I was listening to ATP that when third party cameras make theirs part of the camera, it will make it act like the built in camera. So you don't have to open up the phone, open up the app. You can actually open up a locked camera that functions just like it. So I mean it makes third party cameras much more useful now. [00:30:02] Speaker A: Well, not just third party because of course we've. Now they just about got it in within spring. They just got it in final cut cameras available. [00:30:12] Speaker B: And now imagine having like having like lockdown devices that they can use for production that you're like, hey, just press this button makes it much easier to do stuff. [00:30:20] Speaker A: Well, it's really interesting. I mean, I haven't had a full chance to play final cut camera yet, but it looks good. I don't know if you've used it yet, Alice, because you're much more of a content creator than we are in terms of video at least. [00:30:34] Speaker C: Yeah. I don't tend to use my phone for filming videos. I tend to use a dedicated dj camera. [00:30:40] Speaker A: But you've got the pocket. Is it the pocket? Yeah, yeah. [00:30:44] Speaker C: But I do use the iPhone for getting quick clips, but I can see with the amount of stuff that's on it. But. Well, in my experience, actually, the iPhone is very, very clever, adjusting the exposure and stuff all by itself. The last thing I want to do is mess around with the settings on the phone and then have some awful looking footage. But if people know what they're doing with that stuff, then it's really nice. That sort of thing is available. I think we mentioned it. I think we spoke about it last time, the iPad. [00:31:08] Speaker A: I'm a crushing. Yeah, I'm a crushing device. Yeah. Yeah. [00:31:10] Speaker C: So, yeah. [00:31:11] Speaker A: Now Apple's big focus obviously is on privacy. Now, some people might question Matt with news coming. The stuff we'll talk about a bit later. But I do love this protect sensitive apps by locking them. So any app can be locked, notifications will be locked. You can hide an app. So new hidden app folders, it's going to be unlocked via Face ID or Touch ID. I think there are still, correct me if I'm wrong, there are, is the iPhone the last but most up to date iPhone se still has touch ID. [00:31:41] Speaker C: Yes, it does. [00:31:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And I keep saying, of course, I'm dismissing this from an ipados point of view. So, yeah, it was. Whichever biometric solution you've got. Yeah. Allow you to unlock those apps. [00:31:53] Speaker B: One thing I was thinking about, and I wonder how this is going to work, say for instance, you buy an app, or I mean, or like every. Even a free app is considered a purchase. Will those show under your purchase history if you hide them? [00:32:06] Speaker A: No, you can hide, you can already hide apps in your purchase history. You've been able to do that for ages. [00:32:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:10] Speaker B: Even. Even if in a family plan. [00:32:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I think wife. [00:32:14] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:32:16] Speaker A: And I believe so. We'll have to check that out, Jay. Actually, we should test that. There you go. That's some homework for us. Let's test that. But no, yeah, I see what you're saying. You mean, but obviously we're talking about hiding from the phone itself. A locking room but, and this isn't by the way just for maybe those special apps. I mean that's the term I'm using. That's the term I'm using. But it might be, it might be that you've got some work apps on your personal phone with don't because some of them, Microsoft apps for example depend on your organization. Like teams do require face id to get into if your organization set that up. But if you don't have that maybe you've got say slack. You might want to lock slack to prevent anyone who's getting on your phone getting into it. Or you might want to lock signal for example. And I think signal actually does have its own thing that you can do that with. But there's lots of apps you might, I was gonna say your banking apps, but your banking apps really should require you face id anyway. But I'm trying to think of other examples maybe. [00:33:25] Speaker B: Well and what I'm thinking about, I mean again it's because of my like coming from a queer background, I mean being queer but like say for instance somebody installs an app because they're exploring something about themselves and they want to hide different people and hide is to avoid any questions like that. And also I mean hiding, hiding psycho apps and all that. There's a lot of reasons why an individual may want to hide an app or protect an app. [00:33:54] Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean the next thing, which I think is definitely, definitely something that needs to happen with the likes of WhatsApp and Facebook and other tools that just scrape your contacts, you can decide which contacts you want to give apps access to. And that goes to accessories too. And a network. Oh and so it goes. So that is for allowing apps to connect to certain accessories and what I believe what network devices they can connect to. Alex, if I'm reading this correctly, yeah. [00:34:28] Speaker C: When an app requires local air and app, sorry, when an app requires local network access it has access to everything on that VLAN essential. That's whatever network you've got. I think now they are saying that you can give it access to one device only I believe, which is quite a nice, nice thing. [00:34:47] Speaker A: So I wonder how we're gonna sort of do that. Like is it going to be, I mean is it gonna be more like home kit based I guess or cuz how they get. So for example however if you're on your main VLAN and you only want me up to access your printer, how's it going to discover your printer? [00:35:06] Speaker C: I don't know, I wonder if the. [00:35:09] Speaker B: Phone'S going to be a meadery and say the phone will be like, hey, do you want to let, you want to expose this printer to this application or not? [00:35:19] Speaker A: Oh, that's interesting, isn't it coming? To be fair, you can do network discovery off a phone. [00:35:27] Speaker C: Yeah, it can do. [00:35:29] Speaker A: But I'd be curious how that's going to work. But certainly the contacts thing is. Okay, so you might, for example, again, I'm using Microsoft Teams as an example. Microsoft Teams will want to integrate into your contacts, but you won't if it's, you say your work teams, you don't want your work teams be able to sup up your personal contacts because that means they end up in your corporate data. And you might not want that because. [00:35:56] Speaker B: There are times that you may want to find a contact who's like using this app and you're like, okay, I know that this person specifically uses this app. I want to let the app know, hey, they're in my contacts. But you don't want to give them all the, for instance, Facebook, we'll just call it meta. [00:36:12] Speaker C: Meta. [00:36:12] Speaker B: Got in trouble for using the contact data to try to invite people to Facebook. [00:36:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's exactly, exactly it. I mean, signal does contact Discovery really well. So you don't necessarily waiver. [00:36:29] Speaker C: There's a bit more privacy as well. Well, I couldn't find any information about this network thing, but there is something else. There is. So iOS has got private Mac addresses at the moment? [00:36:38] Speaker A: Oh, yes. Yeah. [00:36:38] Speaker C: It's going to have rotating Mac addresses. So the iPhone never changes that private Mac address? I believe so. You could, in theory, be tracked from that. So now on a basis, it will then rotate this Mac address now. So you're sort of living in the shadows. [00:36:54] Speaker A: Oh, that's kind of. So now those random Mac addresses are per Wi Fi, per sSid, aren't they? [00:37:00] Speaker C: If I remember correctly, they are currently, yes. [00:37:03] Speaker A: Right? [00:37:04] Speaker C: Yes, they are. I think so. [00:37:06] Speaker A: The reason I ask this is, so are they going to just rotate them so each SSID will randomly get a new Mac address? [00:37:14] Speaker C: I believe so, yeah. [00:37:15] Speaker A: Okay. I hope there's a way to turn that off. [00:37:18] Speaker C: There is, yeah. [00:37:19] Speaker A: Okay, good. Because. Because the reason I mention that is where my parents used to have a holiday home. The site was serviced by possibly one of the worst Wi Fi providers I've ever seen, yfinity. And yfinity required you to register the devices in your in holiday hole network by their Mac address. Now, of course, if you read, you either have to. So their advice was turn off private Wi Fi addresses. So I actually got my mom to post it to a Facebook group. No, no, no. This is how you actually do it safely. But obviously if we're going to be randomizing those, then you're going to have to. [00:38:00] Speaker C: So there's a bit of information. So yeah, that's, that's replace the private Wifi address button. So it's going to rotate them so it's disabled by default on new networks. So if you're your home network, that's, it's not going to do that. It's now enabled by default all portal based or hotel based Wifi. It rotates it every 24 hours. [00:38:18] Speaker A: Oh, okay. Isn't that going to cause a problem with some of the portal sites? [00:38:23] Speaker C: Yeah, it might do. [00:38:25] Speaker A: I guess all it means is you have to re register. But it depends if you've paid for it or not. Well that's it. Right, because if you've paid for it based on your, it depends how they do re authentication, you'd hope it's by some sort of login not based on the Mac address. But I know for example some resell Tesla. Well you can pay, pay this exorbitant amount for these, you know, these number of devices. So yeah, we'll have to see how. [00:38:49] Speaker C: That, how that happens. [00:38:50] Speaker B: But yeah, yeah, because like I've only paid for like airplane Wi Fi once, but it does on this and delta flights, it goes off your Mac address. [00:38:59] Speaker A: Well, hopefully you'll never be on a flight for that long, Jay, but it will be a problem. 24 hours on a flight might be. [00:39:07] Speaker B: There are some people, well, I mean, I haven't, I, because I've been on quite few, the fights for people heading to Africa and that, that's almost an intact, that's a pretty long flight because they fight to Heathrow, then they're flying again. [00:39:21] Speaker A: Yes, but separate flights. J so your Wi Fi would be separate. Why? Anyway, anyway, any, that's really cool. I like the idea of randomized address on portals and hotel Wi Fi, but yeah, you're, I'm glad it's to say because you don't really need it on your home, your home network, do you? You don't, you know, and that would. [00:39:42] Speaker B: Also be something that would mess with protect controls and all that too. And like. Oh, like, and like, like different rules on network. So you have to make sure. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Ah, yes, good point. Yeah, good point. Because like unify, for example, uses, will use device, Mac address, Mac address to do traffic identification. And I bet there's a TikTok video. [00:39:58] Speaker C: Out there aimed at kids that says how to get around your parents Wi Fi to turn on random Mac addressing. [00:40:05] Speaker B: Well, for the longest time, there's been a screen time bug I've been reading. [00:40:10] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:40:13] Speaker B: I forget exactly what is, but there's a way to make it work. We can get more screen time for free. [00:40:17] Speaker A: That's right. Yeah. Where you can actually bypass those Apple. It's, I don't want to get into a whole thing, but there are better ways to do parental controls and stuff. It's called talking to your kids about Internet safety and stuff like that. [00:40:31] Speaker B: When you're talking to your kids, they can tap back you now with, with any emotion or sticker. [00:40:38] Speaker A: That's good. Tap. I like that. I like that. Especially some of the generative stuff is coming. I am going to say I am not as scared about some of the generative AI picture stuff that Apple are doing as other people might be. I like some of that. But we'll talk about it, right? Yeah. Tap back with any emoji. Love the fact that you can schedule messages now. [00:40:59] Speaker B: Yes. Which one reason I like this, say, for instance, James is working. I want to tell him, but I don't want to bug him while he's at work. I can now schedule something for. I know he's out of work. Okay. [00:41:13] Speaker A: You'll get, all of a sudden at 05:00 my phone's just going to go off with every message from David J. [00:41:23] Speaker B: Exactly. See, I'll be looking at work, I'll. [00:41:25] Speaker A: Be looking after, I mean, I can see if it's been used to watch, I don't know, Alex, are you, I mean, are you much of an imessage user? Because obviously heavily. [00:41:33] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could, you could schedule, you could schedule to say, I've been to someone at like 10:02 a.m. to make it look like you actually sent it. [00:41:40] Speaker A: Oh, what, you actually remembered? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, to be fair, like, or like, you know, like, I say, for example, like 06:00 dinner's ready, but it's not ready. I know I said that earlier. [00:41:55] Speaker B: You missed it. Sorry. [00:41:57] Speaker A: Actually, you'd have all sorts of fun with that, with your boss, couldn't you? If your boss wants you to check in, say that you've arrived at work. I was watching, I watched a lot of these like bad boss videos and he's going, oh, you know, you were late. No, I wasn't. We can now schedule it to send exactly like 829. When you start at 830, I'm at my desk. Anyway, text formatting. But I mean, that's good. Yeah. [00:42:25] Speaker B: Like question on the fixed formatting. Is this like, like formatting like, like a WySIwyg or does it also support markdown? [00:42:34] Speaker A: I doubt Apple support markdowning. I don't know. I mean, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Alex, do you know? [00:42:41] Speaker C: I haven't heard anything. No. [00:42:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it is just highlighting text and changing the format in the editor. Yeah, I don't think it's gonna turn it into a markdown tool. J somehow, unfortunately. That would be nice. Text effects. So rather than just, rather than just sending the whole messages that like an effect, you better do one by one. [00:43:04] Speaker B: Which, I mean, it is kind of cool because like sometimes people like will see me. I can do happy birthday. It's kind of cool to see the balloons go above or like, like when you do, congratulations. You see like the fanfare. So it's just like little fun things to add a little bit of flair. [00:43:20] Speaker A: Yeah, true. Now, speaking of above, because I feel we have to, I mean, I'm like, so first of all, so this is on what v is it before? And you, Alex, I believe have this? [00:43:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I think so. [00:43:34] Speaker A: Okay. [00:43:34] Speaker C: I think, yeah, that's right. [00:43:37] Speaker A: So obviously we had emergency so's by satellite. But now with iOS 18, you go to do message via satellites. It's going to use a satellite capability. We're available to text friends and family when you're off for grid imessages, of course, end to end encrypted. And you can also use SMS. Now what's really interesting me here is this is building on the satellite services. At what point do we think they're going to drop the. And it's only $4,000 a year for your satellite connectivity. [00:44:11] Speaker C: I don't think that's going to happen, to be honest. [00:44:12] Speaker A: No, I'm being a bit sarcastic. Yes, you think? Okay. On a more serious note, do you think what will happen is it will be bundled into the iCloud plus subscriptions, be that Apple one, be that just paying for iCloud storage? Do you think that's going to be a more likely. [00:44:29] Speaker C: Yeah, because did it really, did emergency so's satellite really come out with iPhone 14? That felt like it was longer ago than that. [00:44:37] Speaker A: No, iPhone 14. [00:44:39] Speaker C: So it's only two then? [00:44:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Hmm. Okay, well, okay, so bear in mind that, you know, we think of the iPhone 15 is current, but realistically we're getting to a point where the 16 is obviously later this year is gonna be scary. I mean, I don't know about either of YouTube, but, like, it doesn't feel this last. Like, the 2020s have gone, oh, really fast. Easily. [00:45:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:45:10] Speaker C: I don't understand why. [00:45:12] Speaker A: Well, I think that thing called a pandemic, but you'll want to forget those couple of years. [00:45:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Now I can see Apple making this stuff free because it. They're really about the safety and privacy of users. And imagine, like, what I could see happening is maybe a quota of, like, you can do so many messages for free, and then after that, icloud plus. But also think about the fact of, like, how many. How many people could be like, okay, you want to be able to contact your family anytime your loved ones out there, give them an iPhone. You know, like, think about how much it could really make Apple the safety and security company. And I. I could see Apple just footing that bill as a value added for the long term customer value fast. [00:46:09] Speaker A: Because it's not like we're allowing voice calls over emergency satellite. It's all small data packets. We're not talking satellite phone here. So I don't know. Apple must have struck a good deal, but, yeah, that reputational thing, Jay, that's a really good point. [00:46:30] Speaker B: I mean, it's one reason why I like flying Delta, because on Delta, I get free imessage on my flight. It was always nice to be able to say, hey, I'm. I'm over here. It's nice to be able to keep in contact a little bit while I'm flying the delta. So, I mean, that makes me like Delta a lot. [00:46:49] Speaker A: That's some clever net. That's some clever traffic. Yeah. Yeah. So it must be. Well, to be fair, bi message ports are known. So I'm guessing what we're doing is saying, okay, if you haven't paid, will keep these ports open or keep the, you know, the messaging. So, you know, the icloud servers open. [00:47:07] Speaker C: So did we also mention there's RCS support now as well? [00:47:11] Speaker A: Yeah, RCS. RCS, yeah. RCS is huge over here, though. [00:47:16] Speaker C: It's not, is it? [00:47:17] Speaker A: No, but I keep coming back to this. So I think it's really important that they do support RCS. RCS is a step above text messaging for certain. But let's not be under any illusion. This is not a secure messaging platform. It is still not end to end encrypted. The only end to end encryption is Google's one is because it's proprietary Google code. [00:47:41] Speaker C: Oh, I didn't realize that. [00:47:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So out of a box. RCS is only client server. It's not end to end. Okay. Why? Yeah. [00:47:51] Speaker C: And so they were so resistant to use it potentially. [00:47:55] Speaker A: No, I think so. No, because their argument is what imessage is better. But of course, yes, it is really great to have interoperability. But I still go back to, we've already got really good secure cross platform messaging. It's called signal. And I guess it does mean installing another app. So I guess there is that detractor to it. But it's a good thing. But again, it's just not widely used. I think, you know, here I might be wrong, Alex, but certainly in the UK the most common messaging is WhatsApp, unfortunately. Yeah, yeah, I know. I've tried, I've tried to move family off WhatsApp. It just does not work. [00:48:35] Speaker C: No. [00:48:37] Speaker B: And, and now your male knows WhatsApp with the, with the email. [00:48:44] Speaker A: These are terrible. [00:48:47] Speaker C: I think she's pre written a few weeks in advance. [00:48:51] Speaker A: No, she's had these written since like the keynote. She's been like, okay, how cheesy can I be? Exactly. Now look, okay, so this categorization in mail, right. I obviously, I mean, we see that in Gmail. I've seen it in outlook. [00:49:07] Speaker B: I liked it in Gmail a lot and I actually missed it when I moved away from Gmail. [00:49:11] Speaker A: I think it looks good, actually make, it looks really good. It's gonna be helpful. The only concern I have is will it? Because it's gonna be on by default. Right. Is it going to confuse people who might not realize, because I've had this happen with people where they've been waiting for a receipt and it's gone into their transactions and they've not realized. But that's a separate category. [00:49:35] Speaker C: Yeah, quite possibly. [00:49:36] Speaker A: I mean, look, I think it's good. I think. Can you do your, you can't do your own categories yet. It's gonna be primary transactions, updates and promotions. Now a fat with promotions is gonna be its own thing. Should help you because they're probably not. I wouldn't call it spam because if it's spam, it's unwanted. You might have signed up, but you might not want to see them all the time. So I do think that's really good. [00:50:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Personally I'm probably going to have it all on all because that's, I'm just a bit lazy when it comes to email. I just have everything in one big block. [00:50:10] Speaker A: But, yeah, no, I do. I do, to be fair as well. But I'm going to see how. I'm going to try it. I think it will work with any email service. It's not just going to be icloud restricted because it's on device categorization, not. Okay, cool server side. [00:50:23] Speaker B: I wonder, will that be, will that sync through icloud, all of your things that way if you have different, multiple Macs or multiple iOS devices. [00:50:35] Speaker A: I'd imagine so, somehow, Jay. Yeah, but that will be. It will be interesting to see because how that works. Yeah, we'll have to test it. I do like this new digest view where it's gonna so give you a summary again, using machine learning. And it can recognize senders and sort of summarize an email for you and then for me, the ability to archive. I don't know about either of you two, right. But managing email when I've got so many notifications. But maybe I've decided I'm going to subscribe. But I just want to get rid of all emails from, say, a certain company or a certain sender, like all the emails for Alex has ever sent me, for example, you know, don't tell me bells anymore. You can help archive. I like insulting my guests. I can only do it. I'm gonna get punished in August, aren't I? Alex is coming. You can now archive and delete all messages from a sender in one click. And I think that's really helpful. [00:51:33] Speaker C: That is really good. [00:51:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So are we bothered about maps? [00:51:38] Speaker B: I mean, only thing that I like is that Maps is a good alternative to Google Maps and the Apple Maps is no longer the. The catastrophe it was when it first came out. Like, I do know. [00:51:52] Speaker C: That's almost ten years. I think that's ten years ago now. [00:51:55] Speaker B: Exactly, because, like, I've moved to Google Maps for the last. I was a Google Maps user till about 2022. Then James really helped convince me to get off Google Maps and I've never gone back. I still wish there was an online web view for Apple Maps because I had a customer who needed directions and I had to go to Google Maps because I wasn't going to give a MapQuest. [00:52:18] Speaker A: Gosh, Mapquest. [00:52:20] Speaker C: The feature I really want. It's a bit techy, but I really want a web embed for Apple Maps. [00:52:26] Speaker A: Yes, yeah, no, I get you. So you don't have to embed Google Maps for website. Yeah, yeah, really good. [00:52:33] Speaker B: The only one I've seen is like, OpenStreetMaps is a really good alternative to Google Maps. [00:52:38] Speaker C: Open street Maps is incredibly detailed, which. [00:52:43] Speaker A: Is probably too detailed, right? [00:52:44] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:52:48] Speaker B: Some of the new features they're adding in are like things to, like, wallet. I like new information for tickets. I think one of the most interesting ones, though, Apple Pay online third party browsers. We Apple Pay. And I. Did I even read Windows or is that totally off? [00:53:06] Speaker C: So it works. Like, if you ever tried to use a passkey on Windows, you scan a QR code. There's like an Apple Pay style QR code, like a circle that will appear when you click on Apple Pay. But the main thing is not that. It's so that all of your shipping information could be done easily, because if you've ever tried to check out without Apple pay, it's a right faff. So you just scan the QR code and then you can. You'll be on your way. Because there's plenty of people out there that don't have a Mac. They have an iPhone. So it's going to just make things a little bit easier for them. [00:53:36] Speaker A: So that's a really good point of cut, of course, that shipping information, then, if they've enabled order tracking, you get that through on your iPhone. I think that's brilliant. Yeah. Tap to cap. Okay, can I just say, the fact that we do not have Apple pay cash in the UK yet is frustrating. [00:53:55] Speaker C: We don't even have. We don't even have the Apple pay card. Because when I met up with Evan a few months ago, it was like, he just got his Apple card. I was like, oh, no, off the Apple card. [00:54:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Cause Jay's got an Apple card. [00:54:05] Speaker B: I got one. [00:54:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:07] Speaker B: And I will say they have one of the most user friendly menus for, like, how much interest do you owe? I mean, they really make it easy to manage your payments. [00:54:17] Speaker C: Yeah. To be fair, the Monzo. I don't. You see them, James? The Monzo flex card I've got. That is incredibly transparent in terms of how much interest you're going to pay. So I think they've taken an inspiration from the Apple card in terms of their openness. But, yeah, it's a shame that we don't have any of the finance stuff from Apple here. [00:54:36] Speaker A: No, because one of it. Because I went to my barbers, as many of you might be able to tell, unfortunately, they took far, too. Now, that's just my hairline receiving. And so he had an Android phone, and I just literally tapped the back of his phone with my Apple Watch to pay. Now, Apple have tapped to pay in the US, and I think he's coming to Germany. It's not in the UK yet, but for me as a kid is. Oh, is it? [00:55:03] Speaker C: Yeah, because I've got a Monza business account and it gave me the option to enable it and I did and I tested it and it worked. [00:55:08] Speaker A: Oh, so. Oh, yeah. But is that Apple's solution or is that. [00:55:14] Speaker C: That's not, that's a third party solution, but using Apple's tech. [00:55:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:20] Speaker B: Yes. Just like because my laundry facilities. Yeah, because my laundry facilities use NFC for me, I just tap the NFC and the app sees that. So it's the app reading the NFC. [00:55:37] Speaker C: Yeah, that came, that came here last year. July, Natwest have it. Monzo stripe other zettle as well. So. [00:55:46] Speaker A: Oh, okay. I did not know that hit here. Okay. I'm gonna have to set up because I do have a stripe account. So I go, that would be actually really helpful when I'm taking client. I, you know, payments from clients. Actually mons our business actually very tempting. [00:56:01] Speaker C: It's free as well. [00:56:02] Speaker A: Oh, is it? Yeah. Okay. I have to get rid of self employed then. [00:56:06] Speaker B: Um, so anyway, there's a few, there's a few things in journal. I'm just going to real quick go through that. Like it's writing state of mind, new journal insights and a new look. I, I find journal really easy because it, because it's like, because you can do things like voice notes in it, you can do different notes. It's nice having an encrypted journal for like I like tracking mental health or just tracking different, like how you're doing. So I think that's a good thing. And it's on device. [00:56:32] Speaker A: Yes. [00:56:32] Speaker B: Just included as part of the iOS. Another one that Apple is really trying to bring forward gaming because again, as ATP said, valve is really good at this. You don't need to do anything with it with your game. You can bring it to Steam deck and Linux and all that. We'll provide the stuff behind the scenes and we'll like, we'll work with you if there's issues with, with your game. Whereas Apple's like, no, you've got to change it to us. And I think that's, that's one of the biggest issues I think Apple has. [00:57:08] Speaker A: But the gameporting toolkit is going to make that easier. I just think they could go on. [00:57:15] Speaker B: It's very much requiring developers, developers, developers to do the work. Whereas like Proton and Vulcan, actually those take what's there and make it work. They do the legwork. [00:57:28] Speaker A: Yes. And I think that's definitely obviously why it's possible on the Steam deck. But the trouble you have obviously on iOS is it has to go through the app store. So it has to be recompiled. Anyway, you're not going to get that sort of stuff happening. But it is cool that we're optimizing the iPhone for gaming. It's cool to see this, I think. Let's quickly talk, though, about photos because, but this, I think a lot of people are not happy about the new photos app. I, I haven't obviously played with it yet, but I mean, what do we think? [00:58:00] Speaker C: From what I remember, it looked quite good. [00:58:02] Speaker A: Yeah, looks good. I think people are not liking the sort of the. Okay, you're now controlling what I see more than just a simple photograph. But I do like the styling, but. [00:58:15] Speaker B: And like, I like that it's doing things like decluttering your photos. Like, I do screenshots of different things all the time. And I like that it will like now categorize screenshots over here for all this stuff. You have your photos that you want to see. Like, like, because that way, for a lot of people who do screenshots, you can have it there. I like the carousel that the smart memories are much smarter than the ones that, because it's nice to be able to, like, look back at old, at old things and then again include groups of people as well. I think it's, to me, I'm excited. I want to play around with it and see what. See what I think of it. [00:58:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I want to try it. I do look, obviously I use my iPhone for all my photos, so, yeah. [00:58:59] Speaker C: I think it looks fine. I think people's concern is you haven't got that. That's always been a, when it's always been a concern. People think, where's all my photos? Or all photos or whatever that's still there, I believe. [00:59:10] Speaker A: I think you're right. [00:59:11] Speaker C: Yeah, you just swipe up and you get more details. I don't see it different. Yeah, there's definitely no photos button here I can see on this video I'm watching. So, yeah, it's. But it'll remove things for you, like receipts and screenshots and stuff, so. [00:59:24] Speaker A: Well, that's helpful. I like that you can now do including groups of people. So, for example, when we meet up in August, you know, we'll take photos and it will be over. Here's all the photos of you, me, Jay and Alex, and Alex's partner. Or, you know, all the photos of me, my nephew and my mom or all the photos, me, my dad and my nana, you know, and I, and I like that because photos are, you know, I think for me, as someone who grew up with photo, the concept of photo albums, not digital photos. I grew up with, you know, a film camera. My first camera was a, you know, my first camera was actually hand me down for my granddad but I remember having a canon like little point and shoot and I took lots of photos and obviously had them developed. Some of them turned out rubbish because I usually wrong, I wasn't great at unsung settings but you put them into a photo album. I still have photo albums here but the photos app is replicating more and more that memories. Photos being memories and being precious memories. [01:00:28] Speaker B: Well, and again, I like the shared library. Like again, whenever you and I meet up it automatically syncs our shared photos together. So it's nice having a shared library and I think that's where it's taking away some of the, it's adding some smart behind the scenes on a lot of stuff. [01:00:47] Speaker A: One thing I'm going to say shared library. I would like to be able to have multiple shared libraries because actually I'd like to be able to have a shared library with Jay and then one with my parents but they haven't got that yet. It's a shame. That would be really cool. [01:01:01] Speaker C: Yeah. We use it. [01:01:02] Speaker A: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And does it work? Because it works really well for us. You obviously youre a more together more of a time. [01:01:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:10] Speaker A: Do you find it does work really well for your use case? Yeah. [01:01:14] Speaker C: Is it supposed to, is it supposed to add pictures of the two people by itself? Is it, is it meant to be automatic or. [01:01:23] Speaker A: Yeah. So if the idea is if you've got it set up right, if you're in the same location and your partner takes a photo it should add it to you. It should be machined library. It should detect when you together put it in share of libraries. [01:01:37] Speaker C: Perhaps it has been I don't really know. It seems to work right. [01:01:39] Speaker B: And I want to say that one other small thing I don't think people might not know about. If you use a home kit like video doorbell for instance, it will actually track even my home, my Homekit camera that I have tracks. [01:01:54] Speaker C: Yes. [01:01:55] Speaker B: My faces. So it's really cool that it'll pull up. They'll say hey, this person, I think this might be this. [01:02:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:02] Speaker A: And that's doing it for your photo libraries. [01:02:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. [01:02:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:06] Speaker B: Because it uses that and that way it is a library that is not against a global database but it's my. [01:02:12] Speaker A: Own personal on total library on device on. Yeah that makes sense. [01:02:17] Speaker B: Well faster on on account because it's based off my icloud account. [01:02:22] Speaker A: Yep. Okay, fair. But yes, it would be. Yes, it would be because you thought, yeah, okay, fair point. Reminders integration in the calendar app. About time. Yes. So you can actually see your reminders alongside your calendar appointments. [01:02:38] Speaker C: That's a good idea. I missed. I didn't even know that was a feature today for this. I was 18, so it's good. [01:02:42] Speaker A: Yeah, does. It's really cool. All right, now, class, do we all. I mean, Jay technically does have Airpods. What Jay does not have at the moment is a way to charge those AirPods. [01:02:55] Speaker C: Did it somehow go missing? [01:02:57] Speaker A: You went, you lost your AirPods case? [01:02:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it felt my pocket at work and somebody took that and like, oh, yeah, fast case and yeah, I never saw it again. [01:03:06] Speaker A: And obviously no extra. However, that's not for much longer for me. I got you. I got J a second hand AirPods Pro case with no airpods in it from CeX. So Jay will have. [01:03:19] Speaker B: When I get a call from you and I'm wearing my Airpods and it says, hey, do you want to enter? James? I can now nod my head because AirPods Pro now has nodding head feature, which is really cool because there are times you just don't want to be. [01:03:32] Speaker A: Like answer well, yeah, I like, I like that you'll be able to do this nod and shake like, you know, do you want to reply but you'll not gonna look weird just like talking to yourself. I'm a myself all the time, so. [01:03:48] Speaker B: It'S like that gonna. [01:03:49] Speaker C: I know it could also be an accessibility thing. Do you think as well because our simple. They're obviously. I don't know what you call it. People. Some people can't talk and they. So. [01:04:01] Speaker A: Mutism. [01:04:02] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, so you can now do they seem to. I think that's more of an accessibility thing possibly. I know they mentioned the keynote. I know they mentioned in the keynote. It's more of a social thing that you might not want to talk out loud, but I think it's probably half and half. [01:04:15] Speaker A: It's good. Well, a lot of Apple's features stem from accessibility. There's a lot of features that started off as accessibility features that have become really good. Example of that is a mouse and keyboard support on iPad Osite started off as only an accessibility feature. [01:04:31] Speaker C: All right. [01:04:32] Speaker A: And then became, well, mouse support. Proper feature. Yeah, and became a proper feature. So it's not unheard of, but. Yeah, that's a really good point, actually, Alex. Also, you know, if you're in a hostage situation, you know. Yeah, no, maybe not. Yeah, obviously we'll help you out. [01:04:46] Speaker B: If you're in a hostage situation, you can. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Voice isolation. Now coming to AirPods Pro, which I did not realize it wasn't in the AirPods Pro. [01:04:56] Speaker A: No, I didn't. I didn't realize it at all, which means it was only in the phone before. Right. So that'll be helpful for us. Pays my Airpods pro a lot. [01:05:05] Speaker B: I'm wondering if some of this, this technology is gonna. Is used in the next feature in tvos, because I want to bring this up because some of these features. And there's only a few features. Two features. [01:05:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:16] Speaker B: In tvos. [01:05:17] Speaker A: Okay, let's. Yeah, let's talk about some, because there's lots of stuff in tvos. Go and check it out. But Jay, what do we want to. [01:05:23] Speaker B: Highlight from tvos, especially the enhanced dialogue, because you can do enhanced dialogue to speakers, receivers, and Airpods. It uses machine learning for improved vocal clarity and subtract subtitles appear like when you mute or skip back, but they're really working on because a lot of media is not mixed. Well, I'm sorry, but there's a lot of me that's just not. And like, I do the reduce loud noises, but sometimes I'm like, I can't hear that. I mean, my hearing is starting to go and it's just. It's nice that they're gonna be adding in enhanced. And the one thing that they were theorizing on ATP is, is it using voice isolation because voice isolation is a little too aggressive for media or will it make. [01:06:07] Speaker C: It. [01:06:08] Speaker B: Will make it feel too forced or will it make it feel natural? [01:06:13] Speaker A: I think it's gonna be. I think it's gonna be very different to voice isolation. We'll have to wait and see, but that will be a genuine interest. I mean, can't. What was alex, what was that BBC show? It was like one set in cornwall with smugglers where the audio was so badly mixed, you just could not hear. [01:06:30] Speaker C: I haven't seen that, no. Was it really badly made? [01:06:33] Speaker A: Really badly made, audio wise and. Yeah, so if it can solve, but I think for me at least, it is. I like the idea of when you meet to take a call, it'll turn on subtitles because channels, which is a Tv receiver. So if you've got something like a HD home run, you, channels will work multiple Tv tunes and you can get live Tv onto your Apple TV if you mute that. Yeah, that puts on subtitles from a tv broadcast. So that's kind of cool. I highly recommend channels, by the way, if you've got a hd home run or something similar. Really great thing, really great app. I mean, there's not much else. I mean, there's some cool stuff in tvos, but I think that's it. That's a real note. [01:07:24] Speaker B: One of the ones that I like about Homekit, Homekit is getting things like guest access. They also have the ability to unlock smart locks by presence. That requires new smart locks because it needs a bandaid. But again, they're making Homekit more, more. [01:07:43] Speaker A: Interesting just to hold on, just to go back to Homekit guest access, because I'm not sure I fully understood this. We're not. So at the moment, you can add someone to your Homekit home, but that is an almost permanent thing. You have to remember them. Are we saying that what's coming is that they're going to be able to be given guest access and you can define what accessories they have access to as a guest? [01:08:04] Speaker B: I believe that's what I learned as the end. [01:08:07] Speaker C: Yes. So guest access says create a schedule for your guest and select which accessories they can use. Guests can only access these sex accessories. Yeah. So they can only get to them while they're at your home. So it's not remote access. And you can have, you can, the example they've got here is front door garage and security system and you can see always allowed or different times and stuff. So it's called customize access. More than. [01:08:32] Speaker A: But I mean, that's so because you've had that with other platforms. So for example, let's say you've got a dog walker, you might want to say, okay, well, you booked them for between these times, let them into the garage where the dogs are, or you have, you know, a cleaner, or you've got, you know, family coming to stay and you don't want the family. So for a perfect example for me, right, if my parents, my parents don't stay with me anymore because we don't read the other room. But when they used to do, I might have wanted to give them access to only the lights in their room of a lounge and not my studio gear or certainly for me, not be able to turn off because I've got my pie hole hooked up through home bridge so I can turn ad blocking on and off through Homekit. Well, I don't want to give that access to random people. [01:09:19] Speaker C: There's some other stuff for Homekit, though. Yes, Jay mentioned express mode is pretty cool, but also there's support for adding electricity usage. [01:09:27] Speaker A: Oh, yes. [01:09:28] Speaker C: Certain providers into Homekit. So Jay will have access to this if you're with a certain provider. So Pacific Gas and electric company, that second one just sounds very generic. Doesn't know, just electric company, but yeah, it looks like it will pull data from whatever the equivalent is of a smart hub or what do you call it? A smart meter. [01:09:46] Speaker A: Smart meter. [01:09:47] Speaker C: So they've got actual daily averages of usage, how much your electricity is going to cost off peak, on peak, so you can tailor your usage and then also tell you some things you can do to save you save energy. [01:09:58] Speaker A: Oh. Because if you've got devices on the homekit, it's going to help you, isn't it? Okay. [01:10:01] Speaker C: Yeah. It says users can now see their home electricity usage and it says more providers are coming in the future, but that usage integration is coming later in 2024. So I'd imagine probably not with the release, but the last feature is also support for robot vacuum cleaners. [01:10:17] Speaker A: What? Really? That was not mentioned explicitly. There was it. That was. I tell you, there were notes afterwards. Yeah, it was. [01:10:25] Speaker C: Yes. It says HomeKit will now support core functionality of robot vacuums. So you can turn them on, you can enable different cleaning modes, you can tell it to Mopede and vacuum, and you can even view how fully charged the thing is as well. [01:10:39] Speaker A: So do you think this is coming off a back of matter being more supported? Do you think it was. [01:10:43] Speaker C: Matter does have the version of matter which is out now, does have support for robot vaccines, so. Yeah. [01:10:48] Speaker A: Right. So it's making sense that we're starting to try to bring this in now. One thing just on that energy thing, can I just say, I'm really excited for this comes to UK, because actually, I'm with Oct. I'm with Octopus. [01:10:59] Speaker C: I was going to say, if there's one company in the UK that's actually going to bother to support, it will be octopuse. [01:11:04] Speaker A: So I want to quickly, because I've got really cool. So I'm trying to figure out how to tie into Homebridge so it can tie into home care. I just got the octopus home mini. It's a little tiny box connect to Wi Fi, you know? You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I. I am on the agile octopus tariff. [01:11:22] Speaker C: Yep. [01:11:22] Speaker A: Yes. Honestly, Thursday morning, if my boss is listening to this, you didn't hear this? Thursday morning, I looked at the Octo octa watch app, which tells me the energy cost, and all of a sudden. Hang on a second, it's currently one pence a kilowatt hour. Right. Literally run, grab my laundry, shove it in the washing machine and turn it on because I'm taking advantage of this. [01:11:50] Speaker C: If you had it at the. I haven't got to surprise. I follow a lot of people on Twitter that use it and stuff. If you had it where it goes into minus figures. [01:11:57] Speaker A: Yeah, happened today. Yeah, literally happened today. So actually I'm getting paid to use energy. Actually, I think I actually did have it once, Alex, at minus five pence a kilowatt hour, you better believe I turned everything on at that point. I don't think that's what you meant to do. No, but, but I do save, you know, I try to avoid doing things inside of those peak hours. So look, if it helps, it's a great thing for the environment, but. Yeah, I really hope octopus get on board with this and work with live data anyway. [01:12:26] Speaker C: I'm sure they will. Yeah. So there's some cool homekit stuff. Oh, there's one more thing, actually. You can now specify your preferred home hub. [01:12:33] Speaker A: Ah, yes. [01:12:34] Speaker B: Oh, yes. [01:12:35] Speaker C: I'd imagine if you had an Apple TV with Ethernet, you could have that as your preferred home hub and avoid any issues potentially with other stuff. [01:12:43] Speaker A: So that's a good point, because the home pods can act as home hubs, but they are obviously wi Fi. So if you've got one of the new Apple tvs that has preferred radio, which is the newer ones, and if you've got the Ethernet version. Yeah, you'd probably want that as your preferred hub. [01:12:59] Speaker C: Yeah, 100%, yeah. [01:13:01] Speaker A: Because we all know Ethernet's always the better option. [01:13:03] Speaker C: Yeah. So some cool homekit stuff I'm. Yeah, definitely. [01:13:07] Speaker B: And it helps you watch your home the same way that your watch will now help you watch your life. [01:13:12] Speaker A: That's gonna be a clip, just that double face palm there from me and Alex at the same time. [01:13:20] Speaker B: There's lots of things coming in the new Apple watch that we're not going to go through, but some of the biggest things you can do. I customize your summary tab on activity. One of the biggest ones that I like is adjust goals per day or add rest days. And you can, which I think that is brilliant, because think about, there'll be somebody who's gotten the awards every single day since the f one's came out. They're like, finally I can restart. [01:13:46] Speaker A: I used to get depressed about my. No, I need days of rest. I can't walk. [01:13:50] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:13:51] Speaker A: Hurt my ankle. I, you know. Yeah, if you hurt, if you injured yourself, or maybe you, for example, I don't know, contract this virus called Covid. You can't exactly go and exercise as much it's probably not a good idea. So that's good. [01:14:04] Speaker C: I remember reading a review of the original Apple Watch when it came out and that was somebody's biggest complaint when on one of these tech blogs he was like, oh, you can't actually pause the ring go stuff. And I was obsessed with it when the Apple Watch first came out, which is quite, I'm not really bothered anymore, but it's, you can pause it now. [01:14:19] Speaker A: Vitals app is good. [01:14:21] Speaker B: Yes. To be able to like and you know and notified of your vitals when you need to change or check in. So I mean, it's good that they're adding that stuff because like mine will sometimes say, hey, how are you doing? Like checking with me like state of mind, which would be. But it's just, it's cool. One of the ones I like a lot though is smart that your smart stack will automatically add new widgets when you need it. And you can have trend, you can use the translate app on your wrist. I bring this up because I in the last month have had two customers who did not speak English and I was able to use translate on my phone to help them and like their face lit up like because they that I could work with them in their language. So that was cool. We'll be getting live activities. So check in is now an Apple Watch and developers can now add live activities as well. [01:15:15] Speaker A: That's because I will say I'm live activities. So deliveroo in the UK support live activities for older stages. It's so good. It's actually really good. And I think I had live activities. I have live activities for Jay's flights which are really. I like live activities. [01:15:34] Speaker C: Yeah, there's one for Octopus energy. So octopus electroverse. When you tap your card without with the octopus card to charge your car, you'll get a live activity on your phone to tell you that how many kilowatts you doing and stuff. And then also ringo as well. [01:15:47] Speaker A: Oh, the pocket. Yes, you're right. Yes. I actually had to use that because I actually had to use Ringo because I was out with my parents and my uncle and auntie who are all either in my six I think are. Yeah, all in my sixties, I think. And the parking machine wasn't working well, none of them could get it working. So I ended up adding my uncle's car into my Ringo account, which I don't drive. So the only two cars in my Ringo account are my dad's, are my uncles. And I was like, we were joking. I said, oh, this is really cool. I can see how much parking. So every now and then my uncle go, how much parking we got left? Like, well, we've got, you know, it's good in it. Yeah, it's really good. And you can. Yeah, that's brilliant. So live activities are great. I mean, we're all Apple watch. Where is. I really. I still genuinely think I don't see for combined fitness and day to day use. I just do not see a platform better than watchos at this point. [01:16:50] Speaker C: No, I like how accurate all the stuff is on it. One thing we missed was sleep tracking is now automatic. So when sleep tracking. When sleep tracking first came out, I used it for a bit and got really fed up because I'd have to set a dedicated time to get a bed. And that's just not how I roll. [01:17:07] Speaker A: So you freelancers, you, you, you non nine to five law, honestly. [01:17:17] Speaker C: Um, so, yeah, I just gave up using it. So not the fact now that I can just go to sleep and it'll track it all by itself. That's just. That's awesome. [01:17:25] Speaker A: So that's actually good. [01:17:27] Speaker C: And that would do napping as well. If that's something people do. [01:17:30] Speaker B: Yes. [01:17:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I do. After. Yeah. Honestly, some days after work when I've dealt with enough of a certain item or enough of a certain customer. Yeah, yeah. [01:17:42] Speaker C: Nice one. [01:17:43] Speaker A: Yeah. So I guess let's move on to ipados because I'm very much aware of how time. [01:17:49] Speaker B: So there are new way, new ways to customize your home screen, control center and your photos app, which the. [01:17:55] Speaker A: Let's skip past anything that's already in iOS 18. [01:17:57] Speaker B: Well, no, the reason why that's important is this is the first they brought continuity because sometimes you don't get the features iPhone. That's why I'm bringing that up. [01:18:08] Speaker A: Actually, Jay, that is a very, very good point. [01:18:11] Speaker B: So one of the things writing is a floating tab bar, so you can navigate to different parts of the app. So it morphs into sidebar. You can customize the tab bar. So kind of a nice way to get an extra menu when you're doing things. One of the things that's interesting is shareplay. So you can now do tap. So now you can know. So now you can tap on an area or draw on the screen to point to what people should do. [01:18:44] Speaker A: They had like a picture screen, isn't it? That's not share screen. Yeah. Yes. [01:18:51] Speaker B: And you can now get permissions to remotely control an iPhone or iPad, which is great for either if you do remote tech support for family or clients. I mean, it's really good there. One of the interesting ones I really want to talk about is calculator is now an iPad. This is not just calculator big on the iPad. This has a new feature called math notes. So this is really cool. It can do scratch math and the results change live. You can save and go back to them later. You can have multiple pages, you can even draw annotations. You also be able to draw or highlight an area and ask something we'll talk about later to draw an image there. But you can now like draw mint next to it and they can, and you can use it in tables, can draw on screen as well to like animate or draw. And there's some very advanced capabilities. This is really cool being able to modify what you're doing and like be able to be able to do live math because I did a lot of scratch math on an iPad years ago, but it'd be cool to be able to like check your work this way. [01:20:05] Speaker A: Well, this is, this is really interesting because I love the idea that you were to like put together like a, you know, like a price, a price list, like, you know, this face visit and you can summit. So you better, just like you could in Excel, you were to automatically summit. I really like this concept because I remember apps that used to do this. There were apps that did this on my iPhone. But I love that we're doing this with not just bringing my calculator now. I'm going to save this straight up. This does not Sherlock peak out. Peakalc has a lot more functionality for its regular calculator than vistas. And if you like really, really powerful RPN reverse polish notation calculators with a lot of convert, extra conversions that this new calculator does not have because it does have conversions at last. Then check out peak out because it's wonderful. [01:20:59] Speaker C: Why does anybody predict that this was going to be the end of that app? [01:21:03] Speaker A: Oh, well, I want to talk about the. There's another. I'm going to come to the whole Shell, the whole Sherlock inglet because it's very much a feature of thing that's been said about another app. But yeah, people are saying obvious, Sherlock's peacock. No, it absolutely doesn't. Yeah, because, because people have their preferences for different apps anyway. [01:21:23] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:21:24] Speaker B: And again, I think this just provides an option. Now, notes has math notes. But another thing that it has, and I like this for me, it has smart script so it can rewrite your handwriting as it goes to make it more legible. You can paste text and have it imitate your writing and spell check. And you can format spell check, erase and move things around. You can have collapsible sections of notes. So I might actually get into more writing because then my notes, I might be able to read my notes after I write them. [01:21:56] Speaker A: Well, this is. Now here's a question, and this is a joke mainly. Well, actually, I think this applies in the US. Is it going to be able to read doctor's handwriting? Because like, no one could read doctor's handwriting. [01:22:12] Speaker B: Now. I think my doctors prescribed me to go on a trip to a. Oh, God. To see some trees. [01:22:21] Speaker A: Just, can we, can we have one where we just don't go? Just, just. [01:22:26] Speaker B: You had it for the iPad. You already have for the iPad. So your quota is there. But the new Mac OS is called sequoia. [01:22:37] Speaker A: So the crack marketing team did a great job. I still love that. That's a joke. [01:22:42] Speaker C: Ten years on as well. [01:22:44] Speaker A: Yeah, ten years on the crack market. [01:22:47] Speaker B: And I will say, like, like, sequoia looks, looks great. I mean, it has the thing like math notes. One of the biggest killer features, though, has to be that, you know, when you're somewhere and you want to access your iPhone, but it's all, it's all the way over there or it's on your desk and you don't want to get up. Like even. Right. Like right now I could look at my phone. I don't want to be like on a call. Well, with this new feature, I could actually be mirroring my phone. You wouldn't even know it. [01:23:19] Speaker A: So. Yeah, now, yeah, this is cool. This is I five on mirroring. So you're going to be able to control what's on and see what's on your iPhone. You can fully interact with, it's over wireless link user from just anything you want to do on your phone. IPhone audio comes through to the Mac. The iPhone stays locked and works in standby mode. So you don't have to worry that if you've left your phone off on the kitchen table and you start using it on the Mac, that all your family go see who you're messaging because it will stay locked. You can drag and drop video from Mac to iPhone to upload. So you can, I think this will apply to any, any files. But for example, you'd actually be able to use this. For example, if you are, you've crafted a beautiful video. In final cut, you just drag it into the app. In this case, for example, being tick tock, and you can actually upload to TikTok without having to use it. Well, you still use a TikTok app, but you can kind of do like desktop uploading on TikTok through this. [01:24:21] Speaker B: And also iPhone notifications come to the Mac as well, so that you don't have to be like, oh, did I miss a notification? You can now see them on your Mac. So again, it just makes it where the synergy of iPhone and Mac. And there is a caveat. You cannot do this through visionos. So visionos, when you're on the Mac, it cannot talk to your iPhone. And I think what I was reading is because of the capability of how it's accessing the Mac that it's already using there. [01:24:53] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense. [01:24:55] Speaker B: You can now automatically tile windows seamlessly and magically, as I said. [01:25:00] Speaker A: Well, I mean, so Windows has had this for ages, right? You've had to use add ons. MacOS has had kind of all you can do. Like, you can put Windows side by side, but this will now allow you to drag it. And there are apps that did this. I'll be curious to see how good Apple's solution is compared with Windows. But this is great because you can really have a lot of customizability about your layout. This is really good. [01:25:25] Speaker B: You can now do presenter preview to see what you're going to share so you don't accidentally over share too much. You don't, for instance, show a collection of photos or anything. One feature that's coming back from ichat is replaced background. Oh, yeah, ichat had this and was so much fun, but you can now replace your background. So they're adding more to what they did last year with like all the other, the presenter stuff. [01:25:52] Speaker A: Well, this is. Okay, so this is interesting. Just one thing to note on this, a lot of these chat apps do have like, background removal, but I can almost guarantee you that the built in native version is going to be better. [01:26:06] Speaker B: Yes. One thing that you definitely would want to not show in the presentation for when you're screen screen sharing is the new password app. [01:26:16] Speaker A: Okay, so we need to talk about this because this is where I was starting to get frustrated because after this got announced, every single person who's like, got any gripe with one password, which now mean Jake, are big one password fans saying, oh, this is Sherlock. One password, one password, go to hell. You know, because people have gotten very angry that the makers of one password chose to make parts of the desktop experience based on electron. Well, there's valid reasons for that. Electron is not necessarily evil if it's done right but also because of a subscription model and the fact that agile bits store your data on their cloud. I mean, you know, no one can see that it's fully encrypted. Now, this app does not mean that the likes of one password bit warden dashlane are going away. I mean, I hope it does kill off Lastpass. That's my only hope. Please kill off LastPass because just. It's awful. But now, Alex, you're the perfect person to ask this question because you have used one password, because we gave you access for a project, but you don't, it's not for you. You are an icloud keychain person, right? [01:27:26] Speaker C: Yeah, I think this app replaces the on macOS is this really old app called Keychain. [01:27:33] Speaker A: Keychain access. [01:27:34] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it replaces that potentially. Oh, because they've moved the Wi Fi passwords to this new app as well, which is interesting. So yeah, it's good because that app is horrible. But also currently have to go to Safari, then settings, then passwords to get access to passwords. This is a nice way of viewing everything. And it works on Mac, iPhone, iPad and Windows as well as vision Pro. But yeah, so iCloud's got like shared groups with family members. It's got, you can put Wifi passwords in here, you can do pass keys, you can do notes, which is super useful for websites that don't conform to standards like bank apps that want memorable words and stuff. So yeah, it's great. And this is meant for people like a certain type of person. I'm just one of those people that have a simple need for passwords. But there is one password and other apps available, obviously, and people pay for it for a reason, like a work we use as well. [01:28:32] Speaker A: So. Well, this is, this is kind of a point I was going to make is I think this is brilliant. But fact, it also, obviously this will because iCloud. So it's building upon icloud keychain and a huge shout out, by the way. I don't think we'll be watching but Ricky Mandela, I follow them on Macedon. [01:28:48] Speaker C: I follow him. Yeah, I follow him on Twitter as well. [01:28:50] Speaker A: So yeah, yeah, they. Because I think. I think they're using Vayvamp. Okay, now, sorry. No, no, I might be wrong. I think. I think they're quite flexible. I just seem to remember them using VM. They are part of the passwords team Apple and they are really transparent about stuff. Because I asked a question because it was driving. Because alt one of the things you can do with totpat codes. Does it really? Well, yeah, by saying to oh well, does that API support third party password ventures? And they're like no, not yet. And it's frustrating. We want it to, but this does not mean. Okay, so one of the reasons we use one password, or I do at least, is a much more control over shared groups fully cross platform. So it will work in. So I've got it in Vivaldi, I've got it on my steam deck. Jay's got it on a Linux thinkpad, multiple browser support, but also things like credit cards. Now I know you, I think I. A credit card saved in icloud keychain. [01:29:53] Speaker C: No, they're just in auto fill. [01:29:55] Speaker A: Just the auto fill in safari. So it's obviously Apple want you to use Apple pay so that's probably why they're not doing it. But one password. So for example with Monzo I've got a virtual card because I pay for and I think I pay for. I can't remember like a few steps of a pre changed. [01:30:12] Speaker C: They've changed all the plans now. [01:30:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I'm on. But I'm on the, not the first one but three. I think it's three pounds a month. Yeah, but that gives me virtual cards. [01:30:21] Speaker C: It does. [01:30:21] Speaker A: So I've set up a virtual card for our crosswise bills that is in mine and J shared vault with a note. Please check with James before you use it. You know, just to make sure. Yeah, your vision pro or Matt card I see there. Good luck with that. There's definitely not enough money in the account for that. The point has come April, obviously we have a couple of servers where I need ssh access. Well one password can manage my ssh keys for me, so. But for the average user, as Alex said, you're not gonna need that. So this is great. And if you are in a windows and Apple ecosystem. So if you're using Windows and then using Apple Apple mobile devices, this is perfect. And actually this will probably change the decision I was going to make for a client to get them on boarded to one password. I think actually once this hits, I think they are actually going to be a perfect candidate for this now because before I don't think icloud keychain was quite as flexible. It's going to work with Chrome as well, which is cool. [01:31:35] Speaker B: The problem with the original icloud keychain was it was hidden behind settings. It was hard to get into. This will be an app that is on the other, on the main screen. So I mean I think it was an intelligent move by Apple. And you have to wonder if they are using their new affluent intelligence. [01:31:57] Speaker A: All right, what can I, can I suggest, is it, is there anything else we've missed on Mac Os that anyone's. Actually. Is anything on the new Safari stuff? Actually, I'll say the new Safari stuff like highlight finding things on a certain page, like highlights the new read viewer, table of contents and a summary looks really good. Oh, and the video viewer makes a video pop out and pop when you go. I like that. [01:32:25] Speaker B: And there was a feature that they were, they had in development, but they understand why they had to drop it yet you can actually hide sections of a page and you could in those remember as you left. You can probably understand why that feature probably did not make it to release. [01:32:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I can, I can imagine that. I mean, just, you know, I'm gonna say if you want really great ad blocking, we don't, it's not sponsored, honestly, PI hole. You can run it on a raspberry PI, you can run it on any, you can run it on a docker, you can run it in the cloud. Just do it because it's network. Alex will know. What I'm talking about is DNA spaced ad blocking. Like, I mean, I think ubiquity unify have something similar in, but it's very basic and not. [01:33:12] Speaker C: It is quite basic. I haven't believed in bothered using it, but. [01:33:15] Speaker A: Yeah, but then you've got, you know, the big guns like PF blocker ng on the PfSense platform. So, you know, there are better ways to add block than using crummy browser extensions anyway. So, you know, for a doctor who reference, this is Apple's great intelligence. I mean, look, okay, hang on. I've just realized something and it's only now dawned on me. Apple intelligence AI. Oh, it's only just dawned on me. That's really bad. Let's just start quickly because we, I think we all use AI in different ways. Alex, for you, what, what is your biggest concern about AI? That is, you know, on the web today, like chat to GPT, what is the, what's the overarching concern? But maybe you have what you think or know, people have privacy. [01:34:13] Speaker C: That's the biggest thing. [01:34:14] Speaker A: It is, yeah. Right. So actually Apple are trying to solve that problem. [01:34:20] Speaker C: So it's, and the, I don't, if you saw it where you wouldn't, you guys wouldn't have seen it. But on the, on the day of the event when I was watching on tv, I watched it afterwards, late. There was so much rubbish on Twitter about even iron was, was. [01:34:35] Speaker A: Well, he did. Hang on, didn't he threaten to remove all Apple devices? [01:34:40] Speaker C: Yeah, he companies, he got community noted within like 15 minutes or something because he was like claiming that they weren't. Did they were embedding OpenAI an OS level, which they're not doing. [01:34:52] Speaker A: No. [01:34:53] Speaker C: So I still maintain, I know you two as well, that there is no other company out there that is is looking after people's privacy as much as Apple do. And the amount of people that are a bit skeptical about that is a bit weird. But anyway, yeah, I would say the. [01:35:07] Speaker B: Only company that comes close is Duckduckgo. I'm being very serious on that. [01:35:10] Speaker C: Oh, yes, yes. [01:35:12] Speaker A: Fair. But. Well, let. But I think it was a scale, isn't it? Don't go down here. Apple up there in terms of. But Alex is right. I think the very mention of AI sends people into a frenzy of privacy panic because I think is it fair to say the big headline here is that a, this is optional and b, the integration with chat GDP is anonymized and requires your consent every time you want to. It wants to be used, right? Yep. [01:35:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Because Apple intelligence itself is being baked in. It's already been baked into some of what we see, but this is just the further expansion of it. That part's going to be part of the operating system at a deep level. But whenever it has to go outside of its own model that it has, it says, hey, I think you might get better information here. Do you want to? And says you don't have to. And when anything comes back from these chat, DBT and they're talking with Gemini and Copilot and Amazon, they're talking with all of the different vendors for integration. They very clearly mark this information came from here because one thing Apple's not doing is not doing in information and they're not doing facts. [01:36:35] Speaker A: No, that is true. It's very much personal knowledge, isn't it? It's about you and your data. That's a big thing that highlights as much as possible on device learning. And then when it does need to go off to higher resources. Correct me if I'm wrong, folks for machines that we service are using are all custom designed Apple silicon based. Yeah. Servers. [01:36:59] Speaker C: Yep. [01:37:00] Speaker A: I mean, that's kind of cool. [01:37:03] Speaker C: It is the fact that buy anything else from anyone else. Yeah. [01:37:05] Speaker A: Well, but also from an environment. There is a huge environmental factor here as well because we know, all three of us know how little power M series chips use, right. [01:37:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:37:16] Speaker A: That scales into servers as well. In fact, our two servers now are arm based. Our WordPress site on our next cloud site are arm based servers with Hetzner. So we know that we're using far less power. But the fact that Apple can control it, it means it's all secure. The data's been processed through renewal engines. There's so much technical detail and I don't know if we are the right people to dig into it, but I feel confident about Apple's ability to build a secure cloud. [01:37:47] Speaker C: Yeah, they wouldn't have done it if it wasn't going to be, would they? [01:37:51] Speaker A: Generative AI and machine learning and, aih, you know, things that help you do jobs, they are not by themselves a bad thing. Where you have a problem is where that data is then getting used for training and is not secure and you don't have control over it. And, you know, and a big thing, of course, is when, well, where's the data coming from for regenerative stuff? And, you know, a lot of generative tools do not give two hoots about whose data, whose content they're using. And I mean, look, it's been a big thing, hasn't we've a lot of sites like Mac stories, Frederico, going on the wallpaper almost saying, I'm not letting Apple intelligence scrape my site, not let any. There's a lot of stuff about how you can protect your content. [01:38:37] Speaker B: So the one thing that has come out, Apple used publicly facing data on the web for its models and that, and that is one of the things, like, like, just like a lot of AI's has used the public web for the data without telling people. [01:38:56] Speaker A: Right, but it's for public web, you know, I mean, and when we say for the data, what are we talking about? For data? What data do we mean? [01:39:06] Speaker B: I think maybe like facts about things, you know, like holidays and things like that. At least they're not like a certain company out there who's faked user agents, stuff like that. And some of the, some of the, some of the large language models have, for instance, use copyrighted books because there's like a, quite a few large data sets that have been used that were illegally gotten from like books and things that, that they'd had no right to do it. So Apple's licensed information, Apple's also done the public web. So they've at least tried to keep it there. But a lot of the data for Apple, diligence is your own personal context on your device that it does not train. Only it doesn't train for other people, it only trains for your, for your own personal model. [01:39:55] Speaker A: Right. [01:39:56] Speaker B: Okay, exactly. [01:39:57] Speaker A: So let's, let's, rather than getting into the nitty gritty, let's talk about some of the things it can do for you, because I think that's where. But let's separate out the privacy concerns from actually, what can this be a benefit to? So capability. So language wise. Okay, so, I mean, one of the biggest things that we in computing has always been understanding natural language. So, you know, I mean, I don't know, Alex, I'm sure you've had the case where Siri just does not understand a query that you've asked. It gets completely wrong. [01:40:26] Speaker C: Yeah. Hopefully this will improve Siri's ability to understand people a bit better. So. [01:40:33] Speaker B: Well, from what I understand, it understands context. So, for instance, if you like, hey, set a timer for five. Oh, I mean, six. It'll set up a time for six. One. Some of the examples I've seen are like, okay, I want to find a baseball stadium near me. Okay, look at this game. Can you set a reminder for this? It pulls up that you want to go to that stadium, to that game at that time, and it can create a calendar on it without having you to say, hey, can you create a calendar here? Right now? You have to really go back and say, hey, can you do a specific thing? And a lot of us don't think like that. I mean, like, when we're talking, I mean, and we're planning stuff, we're not having to tell each other the context that we've already discussed. And that's the biggest thing that it's trying to learn is like, okay, what are you discussing? What's the train of thought you're on right now? How can I then help with that? [01:41:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:41:28] Speaker B: And that includes new, new writing tools, system wide, proofread, spell check, rewrite, fine tone. One of the things that was interesting is they said a lot of, it's like, positive things. There's not really, like, assertive or forceful. I mean, business negotiations. You might need to have it be like a, hi, we want to do like. But it is definitely, it's definitely bringing a lot of things. Like, I used to use Grammarly, quite a lot of, and, but this is bringing stuff that's, that's there. I think one of the other things I'm excited for is they can prioritize notifications and be like, okay, what notifications do you truly need to see right now? [01:42:06] Speaker A: And that way you're doing based on. [01:42:09] Speaker B: Yeah, and they even mentioned, like, say, there's a group chat that's like. That is popping off, or say, there's somebody who's texting you a lot. It can give you a summary. And some of them, like, they said there was a summary of, like, Kayla had got to talk about this, and Rebecca and Caleb went back and it'll do a summary of group chats. Summary of chats. It'll do all that stuff. [01:42:30] Speaker A: I like that because I'm definitely. So. I actually have. So we have a family chat in my. In my family, which my aunt, who I absolutely love, she definitely posts every Wednesday. We will post food photos and walk details and, like, you know what? I don't need that, because I'm not. It's not. I'm not interested. Just. I don't even. So if you could summarize and say, you know, your auntie went to the pub again and they had this and this, because that's literally what the texts are. You know, your uncle had, you know, a burger. He thought it was okay. Give it a five out of ten. I had fish and chips, gave you a seven out of ten. That's literally because. So summarizing Rose would be great, but the proofreading and the spell check, again, being able to understand your language, I mean, it's got to be better. It's got to be better than the stock stuff. And again, got to be better than Grammarly, which I can guarantee you that data has been used to train rare models. [01:43:29] Speaker B: Exactly. And, yeah, and again, Grammarly costs for a lot of the stuff I can. The really good features. And again, this available to all across all apps that use the standard iOS stuff of something. Apps that doesn't. Yeah. Is absolutely the app, but, yeah, a lot of features that can really help. Oh, Evan has said, very excited for the writing tools. [01:43:52] Speaker A: Are they coming to the UK, too? I know a lot of things are. So that's a good question. So, yeah, Apple intelligence is us English only to start with. Now, I don't know what that means, whether or not that means. [01:44:08] Speaker C: It means things are going to be spelled wrong, surely. [01:44:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:44:11] Speaker B: And it means it won't understand. It won't understand Tinternet. [01:44:16] Speaker A: Tintern head J. Very few people who even listen to the show will understand tinternet. [01:44:23] Speaker B: I know. [01:44:25] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. Everyone says color. No, hang on. I want to try something. I want to see if this works. Hold on, hold on. [01:44:32] Speaker C: Color. No. [01:44:32] Speaker A: Color. Color. No. Color. Wrong. Exactly. There's a u in color, folks. [01:44:41] Speaker B: Yes. And. And no. Words have. Have Zed in the middle of it. [01:44:46] Speaker A: What is Zed. Exactly. Exactly what is Zed? Every American. Was it that wonderful line from Stargate? I'm just trying out these new features. I wonder how these will come out for recording. Zed's dead, baby. No. So, because, well, there's a wonderful senior Stargate Atlantis. We need the ZPM. But what. He means a DPM. He's a. He's canadian. Oh, I'm sorry. [01:45:15] Speaker B: I always love whenever you say, like, it's the year, the early noughties, and I'm just. Always makes me smile. [01:45:23] Speaker A: Is that not a thing that's used then? Naughties? No, no, because you say zero. Because you don't. [01:45:27] Speaker B: Yeah, because you say zero. So what's. [01:45:30] Speaker C: What's that area of time called then? [01:45:32] Speaker B: The two thousands. [01:45:35] Speaker A: I think. I actually prefer the two thousands. [01:45:37] Speaker C: I don't think. I think. [01:45:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I just like the naughty, because anyway, anyway, one of the next things it can do, and this is kind of an interesting new path. So a lot of AI models can, can create images. Well, Google can now create totally original images and create images of friends, people in your contacts photos. [01:46:03] Speaker A: You can create them in J. What Google. [01:46:10] Speaker C: You did when Google can generate pictures. [01:46:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:46:13] Speaker A: You said Google could generate ADHD. [01:46:16] Speaker B: Sometimes I will say a word from. [01:46:18] Speaker A: Somewhere, sometimes she'll confuse one big tech company for another. [01:46:23] Speaker B: Yeah. So it can create images of friends of the. It create images of friends, people in your contacts photos, and create them in three different types of art styles, sketch, illustration and animation. It's built into apps. And these are. These are based off license works is what they said. So the models here are based off of licensing. Now, it'll be interesting to see how it is compared to, like, Dolly. And I can't remember all the different types of image. [01:46:57] Speaker A: Well, it's very different though, Jay, because it's defined parameters around what sort of style it's creating and what it can create. It's not a prompt to generate me a photo of a pineapple that's sat on top of a can of lilt, which I don't know if anyone outside the UK will get that reference. It's very much focused on, again, your content. So I, you know, I actually would like, when this comes out, I want to try this for some stuff for our streams, like, you know, like generative photos of us for maybe cover art and stuff like that. [01:47:36] Speaker B: They showed off an early illustration in math notes, because in the math notes to show the illustrations, you can actually draw around something in, like, in an application, say, hey, draw me an illustration here, or draw me a photo here. So you can now tell it. [01:47:52] Speaker A: Right. So you do a rough sketch in it. [01:47:54] Speaker B: Yeah. So. Or even you just give it a prompt and it'll end. It'll make something for you. So, I mean, they've got, like, keynote. [01:48:01] Speaker C: We can. [01:48:02] Speaker B: We can start trying to get people off to some of the old clip art from the nineties in the old stock photos. [01:48:09] Speaker A: Those wonderful stick figures, right. With everyone used in the. Like, how many times have you seen a Q and a session with that stick figure with a question above the head? [01:48:20] Speaker C: Yep. [01:48:20] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. [01:48:23] Speaker A: But there's gonna be. So it's gonna be built into. Apps are gonna be able to make it, but there's also gonna be an image play. Is it image playground, we're calling it? [01:48:29] Speaker B: Yes. [01:48:30] Speaker A: And that's gonna allow you to generate stuff. So, again, it's gonna be really handy. I'll be interested. I know a lot of people concerned about it being a bit creepy and stuff. Let's wait and see what it's actually like. It's not. I don't think it's even rebated yet, is it? [01:48:42] Speaker C: No, don't believe so. I'm not even sure if it's gonna be coming to the UK, because I think the EU is worried about privacy for something. [01:48:52] Speaker A: Well, I mean, of course, we're not part of the EU, so let's see what actually happens. [01:48:56] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:48:57] Speaker A: You know, so Evan is saying easier to generate an artifact, artistic, cartoon style image on device with a limited cpu and battery power. Photo. Really photo realistic edge of what's possible images you can get from Dali. Oh, you can draw a ton of power. Won't see that on device for a while. But I wonder if Apple will deploy their private cloud compute for that in the future. That's a very good question, Evan. And, yeah, actually, that would make. With all that power up in the cloud. [01:49:31] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:49:32] Speaker A: No, that's a really good question. Look, this is only the start of what they're doing. [01:49:36] Speaker B: Well, I think they just want to be very careful that they don't get into deep fake territory. I think that's why they want to be very careful with some of the stuff they're doing. [01:49:42] Speaker A: Yes. And look, the fact that they're thinking about that is a good thing to me. Deepfakes are dangerous. They are worrying, especially at this time. This country is heading. By the time this episode comes out, because this episode will be out, hopefully Monday, within a few days. We've got a general election here. And right now, there is a heck of a lot of very concerning. Not just AI content, but just content in general. [01:50:12] Speaker B: Anyway, one of the things that is cool with all this stuff is a feature called Genmoji. [01:50:19] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. So Gen Moji, I've got just ask a simple question. Who's gonna use a gemoji? [01:50:27] Speaker B: I will. [01:50:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I might. I mean, I can't look any worse than I do now in my Memoji. But Gen moji, you know, sounds like such a great idea. Like, it's a nice step up from, you know, be able to do it, you know, based on, I mean, I'll make myself look a bit more, you know, sophisticated, maybe restore the hairline a bit, you know, be that way down, feed me. Could be great. And then you would send those off. And now what people found by raise Genmoji will not show up on older versions of iOS. So both people s 18 or above, that's already been discovered. Cool. But actions, right? So be able to ask Apple intelligence to do something with particular app. So I think is it. I believe this is built on the intense API. And the idea is, you know, apps developers go and say, okay, you can do this. It's built on what's possible already with the shortcut stuff. And I think this is going brilliant to be able to say to Apple and to Siri, hey, you know, order me a curry from deliveroo from my favorite restaurant. I mean, that's just sheer laziness, but there's probably better uses. Alex, I'm trying. Okay, here we go. Start the update process for my. For my unified dream wall in the unify app. [01:51:48] Speaker C: That'd be pretty cool if it could do that. Yeah, yeah. [01:51:50] Speaker A: I mean, I don't. I don't think unify have even done any shortcut stuff in mirror apps. But I. You never know, it might do. Or, you know, perform a speed test for me inside of Wifi. Man, I'm fucking a lot of unified stuff here for no van, no really good reason. [01:52:05] Speaker B: One of the uses I've been hearing about is, like, for instance, what time does my mom get in? And it pulls up the fact of. Okay. From the email and the messages. Your mom gets in at 545 at this airport. That way you can also create a calendar invite and go right over there. [01:52:25] Speaker A: That's a really interesting thing about this. You make a good point there. Previously that would rely on a calendar event that you'd have to put in manually or. But it's looking through all of the data on your phone, like, okay, my mom. Your mom is this person I know that she messaged you to say, I will be getting in today at 945, and she'd forward you email with her travel itinerary. So it puts all of that together to actually be helpful. I think that, for me, is going to be massively helpful. And I. You know, if I. If I had it, I'd be like, okay, you know, what is the status of Jay's current flight? Well, it will know because Jay share me flighty information with me. It will know that it will be able to look up the flights, etc, etc. So I think this is. I think this is good. Again, personal, competent, personal knowledge and a personal awareness rather than just LLM. Right. I think that's really important. So. So just a few things to sort of on the technical side. So from the architecture point of view, just things to be aware of. It does mean VAR could be some limited limitations. Okay. So it's obviously gonna be on device processing. We've talked about that as much as possible. It will require the a 17 pro or an m series chip, which means any m series Mac, any m series iPad, which is everything currently available. Bar v. Oh, hey, the iPad mini won't be able to do it, will. I don't think the iPad mini's. [01:54:01] Speaker C: I mean, it's gone a 15, I think to a 15. A 15. [01:54:05] Speaker A: Okay. A 15 base level iPad won't be able to do this at the moment, I don't think. Nope. But over current iPad, iPad airs and iPod pros can, obviously Max. But the only iPhone that will be able to do this is the iPhone 15 Pro. So glad I've got one of those. [01:54:22] Speaker C: Yep. [01:54:23] Speaker A: But that'd be helpful among language models, as Jay. I think Jay was saying, they adapt to your data on the fly. So it's called private cloud computing. This is the server model. So they basically flex, and I love this. There's flexing and scaling, computational capability while protecting privacy. So, as we said, it's all running on Apple silicon. So. Okay. Request asks if a device should be okay. So when you make a request, it determines whether or not it can be done on device first. And if not, it sends just the data it needs to send to the LLM in the cloud and back, but it doesn't store that data. That's. That's really good, right? [01:55:05] Speaker C: Yeah, it's good. I can't. I just can't comprehend how much process. I just can't get around how much processing is actually required that the phone can't do it just. I just. I just can't. I don't understand that sort of stuff. But I guess it's obviously. Yeah, I guess some stuff does. Required. Yeah. [01:55:23] Speaker A: It's scale, isn't it? Is when it starts to become too big for the. Because I think, as ever mentioned, one of the limitations is not just for cpu. That's in my phones, because bear in mind, the cpu's in my phones. They are very, very powerful, but they are not full fat m series chips. [01:55:41] Speaker C: This is true. Yeah. [01:55:42] Speaker A: And then you've got the battery life consideration. Well, if you've got a server that's plugged into remains and the grid or solar or what, you know, whatever it's plugged into, then obviously that's got more computational budget. Oh, I like that term. Computational budget. Well, I do like that. [01:55:57] Speaker B: And for instance, we've seen this, where the Apple Watch on older models has to go to the Internet for things like timers and alarms. Newer models, the Apple Watch can do that on device. So this is part of what Apple's been doing over time of trying to move a lot of things on device and not require Internet or other systems. [01:56:21] Speaker C: Sure. [01:56:22] Speaker A: I mean, there's so much really, really cool stuff in here. The architecture is impressive. Can I just encourage people? Go and watch. If you haven't yet watched the Apple event and you're still skeptical of what we're doing, I encourage you to watch the event to get an idea. As Alex mentioned, I think Alex, it's fair to say most of the headlines were, Apple integrates chat GPT into iPhone. That was. I think even BBC led with that story. Just blatantly missing half the facts. [01:56:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:56:55] Speaker A: And it's. That isn't fair. So go and watch it. The thing that Jay was talking about, image ones, is if you circle. [01:57:02] Speaker B: So. [01:57:02] Speaker A: I know what Jay's talking about. I just remembered. So you circle a sketch that you made with your pencil, like maybe a house or, you know, some dogs and cats. Circle it, and it will make. It will use regenerative AI to build you a better image. So that's got to get you some brownie points in your homework, right? I. Alec, Alex. I wonder how it will work. We've, like, you know, those rough network diagrams that we all love to do is network people. Do you'll start putting, like, actual unify access points in, or will I have a preference? Will they put, like, old airport extremes in or something like that? [01:57:35] Speaker C: Yeah, for airport stocking. [01:57:38] Speaker A: Oh, I still do. You know, I. I know it won't happen. Do you know that, Mari? I know there's obviously history. I'd love to see one day Apple return to the Wi Fi game by buying ubiquity. I just. I just can't see it happening. [01:57:52] Speaker C: But, no, I don't think that's gonna happen, to be honest. [01:57:55] Speaker A: Yeah. So anything? Magic eraser. So, because obviously, Google have been touting the pixel phones with all these features, right? Be able to erase stuff, but that's all done in the cloud. This is probably all done, but it's all done on device. That. That makes me feel more comfortable using it. But just be careful that you are not royalty and don't get caught photoshopping. I still don't understand that controversy. Like, why wouldn't you want to touch up photos? Come on. Like, obviously, if you. If you're doing stuff to make. If you're intentionally faking stuff, then it's going to be kind of obvious. But also, there is creative license folks. [01:58:34] Speaker B: You know, and one of the biggest things is app intense. They're. They're really going to be working on the app intense API for this because they really want it to be where it's not just going to be Apple apps, but they want to make it where other developers can do it. Like what Evan said, just turn the homepod into a mesh router. Do it, you cowards. Rfe airport. [01:58:58] Speaker A: I mean, those would be the cutest. Evan, that's a good point. I could see that actually working really quite well. Oh, what do you think, Alex? [01:59:10] Speaker C: It could work, to be fair. Yeah. [01:59:11] Speaker A: Yeah. If you'd have wi fi, how would you do Ethernet? [01:59:15] Speaker B: I mean, Eero's already done it. [01:59:17] Speaker A: Yeah, but you would. You wouldn't put Ethan. [01:59:21] Speaker C: Oh, I would like Ethernet on Homepod, but they're not gonna do it, so. [01:59:25] Speaker A: No, no, but that's a problem, isn't it? You'd have to. You'd have to have Ethernet for it to be a router of any kind. [01:59:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I actually. I wish they would pay Ethernet on just the homepod regardless. [01:59:37] Speaker A: Just. Yeah, because what to solve, because connectivity is. Oh, hold on. Probably don't want to have. Probably don't want to have to hang on electromagnetic things in one box. Oh, no, I see what you mean. Oh, good point. Yeah, good point. Probably don't want to have two electromagnetic things in one box. Not literally a speaker plus Ap. That's nuts. Yeah, good point there, Evan. That is actually a very good point. But wait, ubiquity did it. They had an access point, but had a speaker with it. [02:00:09] Speaker C: Kind of. It was a speaker on it rather than in it. [02:00:13] Speaker A: Oh, okay. Gotcha. [02:00:14] Speaker C: That they did the AP, which they're probably not going to do again. [02:00:18] Speaker A: No, I haven't seen the new version of that. That was an AC device, wasn't it? [02:00:22] Speaker C: Yeah. 2016 up. [02:00:23] Speaker A: Wow. There you go. Okay. Oh, so there's other things that we should. Just to talk about, things that I. Look, I think there's so much to go through. One of the things that's really interesting is be able to record a call. Yes. [02:00:35] Speaker C: That's pretty cool. [02:00:36] Speaker A: And from a privacy standpoint, participants are notified that their call is being recorded, but it can transcribe and summarize phone calls, which can be really good if you're doing a sales call. Right? [02:00:50] Speaker C: Yeah. Because a lot. A lot of people would use their iPhones for work stuff, don't they? [02:00:56] Speaker A: Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. I mean, if I had a phone call, you know, with a supplier and I was trying to understand pricing or, you know, next steps, I think it's really good. You know, be able to record calls is good because it also means when you. You know what? When you get a scam call, you just hit me record, call button, end of a scam call straight away, because they're not going to want that recording, you know, I mean, is there. Is there anything that we've missed, Alex, that you think is really important for us to talk about? Yeah, because I think we've gone through Apple intelligence, too. [02:01:32] Speaker C: I think that's pretty much it. But I will say, before. Before I watched the event, there was some rumors about this launching. I don't, if you remember, and I was like. I was trying to think, what, like, what's he gonna be? What they're gonna do? And even as I was watching it, I was thinking, this is a bit. A bit much of a fuss for. I'm not saying it's not much, but this just seems to be. I don't know why they're branding. A lot of these features could have just been features. They don't have to be labeled as AI features. I don't. I don't quite understand it because the chord recording, somebody's improved spell checking and different things like that. A lot of those could have just been features. But I suppose. Yeah, I suppose they've packaged it as part of an extra thing, but, yeah. [02:02:14] Speaker A: I think I know why. Jay, I think you want to make a point, but let. I'll start and say AI is a buzzword. It is popular. Apple still have to answer to the shareholders and make profits. And I think it's to drive the share price and drive, which surprises me. [02:02:34] Speaker C: Because Apple's one of the biggest company yet still. They need to, it's a way how business works. [02:02:42] Speaker A: Well, I mean you got to remember that's not just Apple. You talk about big names like BAe Systems, British Aerospace, engineering. They have to answer to their shareholders. They, unfortunately, when you are a publicly traded company, your stockholders, unless you're incredibly brave and just say no, you don't matter. But the whole reason you've got stocks is that you can have a share. That's why we've got like, you know, the agms or stockholders meetings. Yeah, because, you know, stockholders can bring motions. You know, they, if enough stockholders were not happy with Tim Cook, they could bring emotion to the, to Apple to get rid of Tim Cook. [02:03:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:03:21] Speaker A: So it is scary. It's, you know, but yeah, the ones. [02:03:27] Speaker B: I wanted to mention was you can, you can search for a moment in a photo or video. Seems like find me the video. Oh yeah, that this happened. But yeah, I, I definitely think that like they have to show the shareholders. Yeah, because I mean otherwise they're not going to, they're gonna look like they were our stalling because Siri's been out, I think I heard like twelve years or at least ten years. I mean it's been out for a long time now. [02:03:51] Speaker C: Twelve years now. [02:03:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:03:53] Speaker B: And they have to show what are we doing with stuff because Amazon's redoing their, their Amazon system soon because of all this stuff. [02:04:06] Speaker A: There's rumors. But isn't there rumors that Amazon start charging for via Alexa service? [02:04:11] Speaker B: Yes. [02:04:12] Speaker A: So now Apple intelligence is going to be free because guess what? Apple make, the Apple make their money on the hardware. The service member services were paid for services, but the feature set they're not going to charge for now chat GTP will be free to access again on consent. You know that's great. We're talking about doing more models now. There was a rumor by the way, just, just a flight going around but oh, they were talking with meta. Well I'm very glad to say that Apple definitely did not want to work with metaverse because of their privacy concern. But is why I like this model because they're not just saying, oh, let's have any old AI model in here, but chat GPT. Look, I can never say it quite right, go are even using it because it seems to me like OpenAI for all their faults, right, and all their leadership issues, they at least make it possible to do anonymous requests. Yeah, but not necessarily the evildoers in AI. I mean when you've got tool, you've got services like, you know, data and warehousing and analytic services like Palantir or what's the one that Jay was using? A fake browser agents propellecty faking its browser agents to get around people's requests for a data not to be scraped. I don't know how you can say, oh, you know, those are good models, but they're not. Look, I think let's, let's move to wrap up on the whole thing, Alex, I mean, you said something just, just there, not quite what we expected, right. And. [02:05:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:05:54] Speaker A: Is there anything, I mean, is there anything from me that you wish Apple had done across any of those things that we announced? But I remember things I can think of. But what about you? Is there anything you think that is like, oh, I'm really guilty they didn't do more with this. [02:06:08] Speaker C: I don't tend to have much imagination when it comes to that because I'm always quite surprised when things are announced from Apple because like, oh, I didn't think or same with any of a lot of things, to be honest. Like, oh, it's quite good in terms of. I don't if you want a different segment, but my favorite, one of my most highlight features is the iPhone mirroring because I am constantly leaving my phone in different places in the house and I'm on the computer. I just want to use the iPhone. Notifications is a feature I've wanted on my Mac for ages, for so long. I wanted notifications to be everywhere and I'm really, really happy with that, which is really good. I haven't got anything of a, more of a want from, from it. Maybe some, I just want maybe more Homekit stuff, like be nice to have data from HomeKit apps put into a graph in HomeKit, the app itself. But apart from that. So no, all good. [02:06:57] Speaker A: No fair, Jay. I'll just say what before I jump in. I'm with you, by the way. IPhone. IPhone. There is one question I have, which is, if you're using continuity camera like I am now, will iPhone mirroring still work? Because that would be amazing if it did. [02:07:19] Speaker C: That's one to test. [02:07:20] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely one to test. Definitely want this. Jay, what about you? Anything massively either disappointed you or anything. Again, I think, and Alex rightly points out what for you is the standout moment of WWDC. [02:07:35] Speaker B: I just think the fact that they are trying to bring a lot of the benefits of these machine learning, largely model systems, but with a focus on privacy. And my biggest question when I'm watching all this stuff, how does it do in practice? Because we get a lot of theory, got a lot of concepts, a lot of clean demos. But I want to see how it. I want to see what are the breaking points, what are the things that are going to break or like, we're going to find the. The areas because we're not quite to the level of like her, if you've seen the movie, or we're not quite to like, level some of those other systems. But it's interesting to see we're getting there, and I just hope you don't get a half baked system. [02:08:30] Speaker A: I get exactly what you mean, Jay. I am going to say I don't think that's what we're getting. I think they've taken so much time to get this right. But there is a reason that they baked neural engines into all of their apple silicon chips and have been doing for yourself for a long time to get ready for this. There's a reason. But they keep. I don't think when they talk about new apple silicon chips, they always talk about the newer engine performance. That cannot be a coincidence. [02:09:00] Speaker C: No, they have this stuff planned way in advance. [02:09:03] Speaker A: Absolutely. [02:09:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:09:05] Speaker A: For me, the thing that I think I would have liked to see more now, admittedly, I'm not in a position where I've got an iPad new enough. I'd like to see more, maybe more. More things on the iPad. Like in terms of. I mean, a biggest wish of mine is to be able to have more parity with the audio functionality on iPad. I long for a day when loopback can be an app on ipados. I know we've got the pro apps. I get it. But loopback. Bye. Rogue amoeba, am I right? Is it rogue amoeba? Yes. Yes. I was thinking of a Jake, what was it? What was it? Company. We did wiretap. That was ambrosia software. Ambrosia software. That's it. I just loop back and audio hijack. Just amazing apps. [02:10:00] Speaker C: I thought of rice pudding. [02:10:01] Speaker A: Well, Ambrosia, yes. Oh, and Devon. Devon Rice pudding. Oh, yes. I'm going to get Jay for real. Oh, now you are. [02:10:12] Speaker C: You are gonna have to do that with a bit of thank you. [02:10:16] Speaker A: Yeah, that's me. Thanks, Alex. I'm already hungry. But for me, the standout is, honestly, I. Do you know what? I think I'm with Alex on most of his iPhone mirrored. But certainly I'm really interested in being able to try out a AI without the fear of privacy. So actually, yeah, I'm really excited about what Apple intelligence will bring. I will get to. I think me and you, Alex, will get to play with it because we'll have fifth. Well, depends if it comes to the UK. [02:10:46] Speaker C: We don't know, do we? [02:10:47] Speaker A: Wow. But our phones will support it and obviously all our Macs will. Let's see. First of all, can I say a huge thank you to Evan and to the other people in our Riverside chat? We did want to have this all on twitch and everything, but we, you know what, receiving problems. It is a brand new feature. It is really cool. And I've got to say, I am still blown away with riverside. We are really so many great features. We loved squadcast. We really did. And I still would consider. I respect everyone there. I just think, unfortunately, when they got acquired by description, squad cast got put on my back burner and it's really sad. But the point I was going to make is you may not be watching this live, but come and join our discord, crosswise.net forward slash discord. Or drop us an email podcastwise.net. we'd really love to hear your thoughts. You can also find us on all the decent social media platforms. You know, I say, Jr, primary sort of engagement is probably going to be what Mastodon and blue Skyd for, like, actually interacting with people. And obviously our discord. Come and check them out. Alex, thank you so much for giving up so much of your evening to be here. Where can people find your amazing content and not find you, but, like, find your. Well, you know what I mean. [02:12:12] Speaker C: I know what you mean. So for automotive and technology news and reviews, theinterface dot UK comma, I do car reviews on YouTube as well as some links on the website. And then me and Evan, who's in the chat as well, we do a ubiquity focused podcast, which is extremely niche. That's once a month. And I do some other shows as well. So, yeah, all sorts of good stuff online. [02:12:34] Speaker A: Awesome. And, Jay, is there anything we want to promote? I mean, you. You are, of course. Oh, can we give a special shout out to Jay's puns? Because I'm not sure if they, I mean, they certainly did something to the show, but, Jay, where can people find more of your puns? [02:12:50] Speaker B: You can find me here on crossfires. You can find the streams@crossfires.net live and in the discord, too. So also, if you follow me on any of the social medias that I'm there, I'm not. I'm not on x. But if I'm on like mast on and blue sky and all that. And you can see puns. [02:13:11] Speaker A: You can see a lot of puns. You can see a lot of. [02:13:14] Speaker B: And some innuendo. [02:13:15] Speaker A: Yes. [02:13:16] Speaker C: Yes. [02:13:17] Speaker A: We will one day do a crosswise meetup. It is on my radar. Unfortunately, I don't think we've got enough time for our next trip because unfortunately, our us employment law means that, you know what? You don't get much holiday like. It's really bad. [02:13:35] Speaker B: But hopefully after July 4, immigration changes. [02:13:39] Speaker A: Well, do you know what? I need to read the manifesto from the party that I may well be voting for, which begins with an l, certainly is not conservative. Well, we are not. Me and Jay, at least I can't speak for Alex. Me and Jay are not conservatives. They've done so much harm to our immigration stuff. I don't care which way you vote, but please just get rid of the conservatives. Please. That's my plea for judge. We're not a political podcast. Anyway, thank you both for being here, and I will on the recording. I'll roll the outro. [02:14:13] Speaker B: Hey, Siri, can you stop the recording? [02:14:20] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to this episode of Crosswires. We hope you've enjoyed our discussion and we'd love to hear your thoughts. So please drop us a note over to podcastwires.net dot. Why not come and join our discord community. Over@crosswires.net. discord we've got lots of text channels. We've even got voice channels, and we've got forum posts for every episode that we put out there. If you are mastodon, you can also follow us either by heading over to wires social or just follow crossed wires social. [02:14:49] Speaker B: If you'd like to check out more of our content, head on over to Crossedwires.net YouTube for all our videos and keep an eye on our Twitch channel@crossedwires.net. live for our upcoming streams. [02:15:01] Speaker A: If you like what we heard, please do drop a review in your podcast directory of choice. It really does help spread the word about the show. [02:15:08] Speaker B: And of course, if you can spare even the smallest amount of financial support, we'd be incredibly grateful you can support us@kofi.com. crosswires. That is Ko fi.com crossedwires. [02:15:22] Speaker A: Until next time, thanks for listening.